BREXIT |OT| A minister always pays his debts

So there is a gun to my head and someone telling me "you have to like Labour ... or else."

If I could vote, I would vote LibDem or SNP, regardless of their history or their chances to take the district. If more do that, they would either force tory and labour in a grand coalition, sullying both of them with brexit (so that the other party couldn't wash their hands of it in the coming year and proclaim they would have made a better Brexit)
Or force them in a coalition with libdem and snp to stop Brexit.

But sinking your head into the sand and moaning about the unchangeable future is better, right?
Wow, and you were the one saying others were dreaming about "the land of honey and sugar"? None of this is remotely realistic.
 
Wow, and you were the one saying others were dreaming about "the land of honey and sugar"? None of this is remotely realistic.
it is more realistic than a successful Brexit by either of the two main parties.
How do the LibDem MP's take a seat in other districts, Magic? Someone has voted for them, and they DID have a majority.
And SNP doesn't even need that much votes to flip some seats.
 
it is more realistic than a successful Brexit by either of the two main parties.
How do the LibDem MP's take a seat in other districts, Magic? Someone has voted for them, and they DID have a majority.
And SNP doesn't even need that much votes to flip some seats.
"regardless of their history or their chances to take the district. "
 
"regardless of their history or their chances to take the district. "
That's my personal stance
If more do that[...]
is the continuation of my argument and the possibility to flip seats.

Whatever. It is clearly impossible to try to change the political deadlock. Sit in the back of the bus on the road to the cliff with an insane driver, crossing your arms and singing "we surely can't change anything".

Hey, what do I care, right? I am a Federalist at heart, a dreamer and believer of a United States of Europe, and the UK out of the EU is the best thing that can happen to that dream.
Why should I care about the people...
 
No they haven't been consistently reporting that. I read both those two papers everyday, and that's not remotely true. They are also both very pro EU, especially the Guardian, insisting otherwise is just bizarre.

And the British media isn't a monolithic entity. That's about as sensible as grouping Fox News and New York Time together. What you're saying doesn't really make sense.

I mean are you honestly saying The Guardian, one of the most reputable newspapers in the world, and also happens to be super pro EU is being dishonest about this? No the Guardian is not spreading lies about the EU, that's such an insane claim.

And no, its not only the Guardian and FT, it was also reported in Politico and probably else where too. You need to stop taking reported news so personally, and insisting any British newspaper is dishonest. It's just being silly. Perhaps you don't really know much about The Guardian or the FT. But other than loony rightwingers no one says they are gibberish. Just a really really weird thing to keep insisting. And wrong.
Maybe you're misunderstanding me. I'm not calling them fake news. In fact i read FT everyday.

What i'm saying is basically this:
It is just that none of their European peers are reporting this. You won't find similar reports in Dutch, Belgian, Italian, German, French, Spanish, Italian, ... newspapers. They are indeed reputable pro-European, but their information is still likely coming from British people involved, like the other countries will have more sources in their own countries' ranks.
You only hear this kind of reporting in british media. If the netherlands or belgium were serious about going against the comission, germany and france you wouldn't only read this in british media. You would also hear it from local sources.

The fact that these whispers are only in british media tells me they're most likely from british sources and we all know they live in the land of cake.
 
it is more realistic than a successful Brexit by either of the two main parties.
How do the LibDem MP's take a seat in other districts, Magic? Someone has voted for them, and they DID have a majority.
And SNP doesn't even need that much votes to flip some seats.
There's a difference between able to "flip some seats", which no doubt they could do to some degree, and getting close to being in a position to be in a coalition with a much larger party and then being able to fundamentally change their Brexit policy. People will have voted for those parties on the basis of how they would deal with Brexit, so the idea that a party with a much smaller share of the vote can come in and reverse that is laughable. Also bear in mind that the Lib Dems ran on stopping Brexit last year and it did not go well for them.

What a "successful" Brexit looks like really depends on how you look at it. I don't think it's possible to have one that puts us in the same position we'd be in if we stay, so there won't be a successful one by that measure, not least because damage has already been done. It's certainly possible to have one that will look at lot better than what the Tories will manage, particularly because other parties don't have the same number of swivel-eyed Brexiteer MPs they need to placate with the deal.
 
There is no such thing as a successful Brexit. There is only harm in the short term

It will take years and a shit ton of analysis to reflect on this decision and the state of both the UK and EU to determine if Brexit was the better/worse choice.
 
There is no such thing as a successful Brexit. There is only harm in the short term

It will take years and a shit ton of analysis to reflect on this decision and the state of both the UK and EU to determine if Brexit was the better/worse choice.
Stop talking our country down, if you remoaners would only click your heels together and wish for a successful Brexit then everything would be magical and wonderful
 
In my local elections, I did vote Lib Dem. I don't care for them at all, but I live in a Tory stronghold, and Labour is at the same level as UKIP (around 5%). So I vote strategically, even though it seems my vote won't change anything because it's probably been Tory for longer than I've been alive.

And, well. 2 years ago, Lib Dem won by something like 40 votes. Honestly, it's been the first time I've felt my vote counted for anything (even though I voted for my 3rd choice instead of "wasting" my vote on the first choice).
Unfortunately, the following year, the Tories took the seat back by 45 votes. Fucking creeps. Hopefully next time the pendulum flings back.
 
It is just that none of their European peers are reporting this. You won't find similar reports in Dutch, Belgian, Italian, German, French, Spanish, Italian, ... newspapers. They are indeed reputable pro-European, but their information is still likely coming from British people involved, like the other countries will have more sources in their own countries' ranks.
Spiegel reported it, but in a different manner, not as a "European countries are going behind the back of the commission" story. I think Thursday or Wednesday it was mentioned in an article.
 
There were 2 CDU politicians who wanted more flexibility in the talks. But they were talking about flexibility with the 4 freedoms, that will never fly.
Merkel is weak right now, so some politicians think they can either get away with different talking points or get themselves in the spotlight.

These are surely not secret talks behind the back.
 

Nice to see a journalist finally take Boris' insanity to task. I love that the twat suggests 'Switzerland and Norway' as examples of countries outside the EU benefiting from the Single Market and Just in Time manufacturing, but of course he'd say those models are 'betraying the will of the people'.

Then bringing up Singapore to Berlin to Derby as JIT?
 
Reading this guardian article on the various "NO U"'s being flung at BoJo for his SuperCanada thing I came across this:
Speaking ahead of the conference, May said the government was on the verge of a Brexit deal, despite admitting after the EU summit in Salzburg that the two sides remained some distance apart on customs and the Northern Irish border. “The right deal is close – and with it the opportunity to make life better for ordinary working people,” she said.
Now that... uh... isn't this a bald faced lie? One could say that Chequers was a first step in the right direction of possibly getting a deal hammered out after another two or three years of negotiations (and a complete rework of basically everything so much as mentioned in the deal).

I mean, there's optimistic, there's deluded, and then there's May saying she's "at the verge" of getting a Brexit deal.

Let's just ignore the part about it making life better for "ordinary working people", for now. That's a whole different can of alternate reality worms, even if you take into account that she's only selling it as an opportunity for such... like, how.
 

Oilvomer

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Reading this guardian article on the various "NO U"'s being flung at BoJo for his SuperCanada thing I came across this:

Now that... uh... isn't this a bald faced lie? One could say that Chequers was a first step in the right direction of possibly getting a deal hammered out after another two or three years of negotiations (and a complete rework of basically everything so much as mentioned in the deal).

I mean, there's optimistic, there's deluded, and then there's May saying she's "at the verge" of getting a Brexit deal.

Let's just ignore the part about it making life better for "ordinary working people", for now. That's a whole different can of alternate reality worms, even if you take into account that she's only selling it as an opportunity for such... like, how.
Lord Jones was on radio 4 this morning at a ungodly hour, he was saying that Merkel is under a lot more pressure than she is letting on, he claimed that the car makers in Germany was warning of thousands of job losses unless she concedes to a trade deal, and that her political position at home is not that strong anymore...

He offered no evidence of knowing this, he did claim Barnier said to him on the quiet that he wants a ever closer union in the EU, so wants the UK out.
 
In other Brexit news it seems that not many jobs from the City have shifted over to Europe. Out of the 70,000+ that were first estimated just 630 have left.

Just 630, guess France isn’t that good at wooing bankers lol

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1M60P8
From that article though.

Nearly all of those surveyed said they are moving as few people as possible, hoping for a last-minute political deal that protects access to the EU’s $19.7 trillion-a-year economy after Britain leaves the bloc.
It's nice to hope, I suppose.
 
Tbh I’m at that point now, I see Brexit as just annoyance whilst other issues aren’t addressed.
It’s just a dumb mess, through and through.

Sajjid talking about mass deregulation to “save” your economy, now that will be fun. Hope for all your sakes the ink isn’t dry on a trade deal until Trump is out of office.

From that article though.



It's nice to hope, I suppose.
It’ll be more problematic for goods trade than services though - and that I can see being a disaster.
 
A last minute deal will be reached or at least a framework of one as the EU have trillions of euros in deratives wrapped up in London.

But Im not hoping, I know some kind of a agreement will be reached.
So you don’t know. You are just hoping.

Or are you some incredibly high level diplomat with access to both the EU and UK inner workings and thinkings, and are choosing to reveal such secrets on a gaming message board?
 
A last minute deal will be reached or at least a framework of one as the EU have trillions of euros in deratives wrapped up in London.

But Im not hoping, I know some kind of a agreement will be reached.
You’re absolutely 100% hoping. There is no hidden knowledge you’ve fallen upon, when the people actually involved with deal making don’t even know if they’re going to succeed.
 
From that article though.



It's nice to hope, I suppose.
How does that even make any sense, even the governments own suggested deals(chequers) completely ignore's services/the banking sector. The government clearly doesn't care about the banking sector.

These guys are in complete delusional denial.
 
One for Funky Papa

Toyota says no-deal Brexit would stall production at Burnaston

Toyota UK has told the BBC a no-deal Brexit would temporarily halt output at its plant in Burnaston, near Derby.

The Japanese carmaker is one of the biggest in the UK and Burnaston produced nearly 150,000 cars last year, 90% for export to the European Union.

"My view is that if Britain crashes out of the EU at the end of March we will see production stops in our factory," said Marvin Cooke, managing director at Burnaston.

Mr Clark said the consequences of a no-deal Brexit were "concerning".

"The evidence from not just Toyota but other manufacturers is that we need to absolutely be able to continue what has been a highly successful set of supply chains," he said.

"We need to have a deal... we want to have the best deal that will allow as I say not just the success at present to be enjoyed but for us to grasp this opportunity."
 
This has been the failed MO for almost two years now. France and Germany won't move on the 4 freedoms because that's literally what the Union is about.
They're threatening Switzerland with them to get them to sign a new all-encompassing treaty literally as we speak so they won't compromise for obvious reasons.
 
This has been the failed MO for almost two years now. France and Germany won't move on the 4 freedoms because that's literally what the Union is about.
The MO is foolish, especially with a lot of countries in the EU that have the same or similar economies sizes to that of the UK.

If we are to believe that the winning side of the referendum voted for Brexit mainly due to immigration, the only option is to leave and start a new. I just can't see the UK getting a unique deal that will benefit all, someone has to lose out and the EU is making sure that it isn't going to be them on the losing side.
 
Lord Jones was on radio 4 this morning at a ungodly hour, he was saying that Merkel is under a lot more pressure than she is letting on, he claimed that the car makers in Germany was warning of thousands of job losses unless she concedes to a trade deal, and that her political position at home is not that strong anymore...

He offered no evidence of knowing this, he did claim Barnier said to him on the quiet that he wants a ever closer union in the EU, so wants the UK out.
He is certainly right with her position not being that strong anymore, but for the rest? I don't know. The CDU/CSU/SPD coalition would certainly be over if that happens. But to be fair chances are it's over anyways.
 
He is certainly right with her position not being that strong anymore, but for the rest? I don't know. The CDU/CSU/SPD coalition would certainly be over if that happens. But to be fair chances are it's over anyways.
I think all three parties would suffer greatly if the EU caved. Some people forget too easily that there is more to this than just British inner politics.
 
In other Brexit news it seems that not many jobs from the City have shifted over to Europe. Out of the 70,000+ that were first estimated just 630 have left.

Just 630, guess France isn’t that good at wooing bankers lol

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1M60P8
Is it that jobs aren't being moved or that other areas are just being bulked up?

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-...sters-paris-hub-ahead-of-brexit-idUSKBN1JZ0TF

I feel like London will lose prominence over time. I know my employer has committed to Frankfurt and Paris as new hubs. Though...I don't know what that actually means for London.
 
Also, "these things, they take time"
You can be sure that this is just the tip of the iceberg. many banking corporations probably have things ready to go if Brexit goes belly-up.
 
Just ahead of the Conservative party conference Boris Johnson says May's Chequers plan is deranged and we should ditch the HS2 rail link and instead build a bridge to Ireland:
 
Just ahead of the Conservative party conference Boris Johnson says May's Chequers plan is deranged and we should ditch the HS2 rail link and instead build a bridge to Ireland:
Theresa May reveals "plans for a historic festival to celebrate Brexit Britain".

Honestly that's more out of touch than Boris's bridge.
 
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