Everything You Need to Know about Dreams.

Here’s the thing to....we don’t know what this beta has lol. I can’t explain the details of the beta to anybody because we still know nothing tomorrow starts October how long y’all gonna say later this year it’s utterly ridiculous at this point
I'm putting my hopes on paris games week and if we hear nothing from that then it aint happening this year because I seriously doubt it'd be at the game awards and i cant think of any other big events left this year that they could announce this thing at.
 
I'm putting my hopes on paris games week and if we hear nothing from that then it aint happening this year because I seriously doubt it'd be at the game awards and i cant think of any other big events left this year that they could announce this thing at.
If they miss the beta this year, I dunno if I’m gonna bother with this game at launch. They should just wait to release it for PS5.
 
If they miss the beta this year, I dunno if I’m gonna bother with this game at launch. They should just wait to release it for PS5.
Why? How does the end game get worse by not having a beta this year?
I'd definitely also be disappointed. But you obviously can't be too excited for the game if you're gonna not buy it because of a beta delay.

This thread is toxic as hell lately. People seem to think they know the ins and outs of the game better than the developers.
People have said several times over, that "they're done", only to come back next stream complaining once again.

If you're dissatisfied with the way Mm are handling the marketing, just leave and wait for it to come out.

I can probably almost certainly say I've been following Mm, and this game more closely than almost everyone here. I've been disappointed by the delays, but I understood the reasoning for them, and my excitement has only increased tenfold since announcement,
 
“I know more than everyone here” o plz a lot of the ppl complaining were a big part of why this thread was created back on gaf try again
This not a circle jerk thread ppl can talk about their disappointment and excitements as they so please
 
“I know more than everyone here” o plz a lot of the ppl complaining were a big part of why this thread was created back on gaf try again
This not a circle jerk thread ppl can talk about their disappointment and excitements as they so please
And what if I want to discuss the game without the constant derailing negativity from some people, always repeating the same stuff.
Coming back every few days to repeat how they're "so done with this game". That doesn't foster any worthwhile discussion.

If you look on the discord, it's very active, of people asking questions and talking about the game. Rarely there's complaining, and when there is, it's often me who brings up the complaints, because I also find Mms marketing kinda poor, but not to the point where it's the only thing I want to talk about.
 
Why? How does the end game get worse by not having a beta this year?
I'd definitely also be disappointed. But you obviously can't be too excited for the game if you're gonna not buy it because of a beta delay.

This thread is toxic as hell lately. People seem to think they know the ins and outs of the game better than the developers.
People have said several times over, that "they're done", only to come back next stream complaining once again.

If you're dissatisfied with the way Mm are handling the marketing, just leave and wait for it to come out.

I can probably almost certainly say I've been following Mm, and this game more closely than almost everyone here. I've been disappointed by the delays, but I understood the reasoning for them, and my excitement has only increased tenfold since announcement,
No, I don’t mean the game will be worse if they miss the 2018 beta. I’m just speaking purely from a personal place. The game is gonna be great when it comes out, of that I’m sure. I’m personally winding down on this gen, cos I’m expecting PS5 late 2019.

I just hope the Dreams userbase doesn’t get fragmented going cross-gen
 
Why? How does the end game get worse by not having a beta this year?
I'd definitely also be disappointed. But you obviously can't be too excited for the game if you're gonna not buy it because of a beta delay.

This thread is toxic as hell lately. People seem to think they know the ins and outs of the game better than the developers.
People have said several times over, that "they're done", only to come back next stream complaining once again.

If you're dissatisfied with the way Mm are handling the marketing, just leave and wait for it to come out.

I can probably almost certainly say I've been following Mm, and this game more closely than almost everyone here. I've been disappointed by the delays, but I understood the reasoning for them, and my excitement has only increased tenfold since announcement,
Come on now, we can do without the 'toxic' comments. We disagree, that's fine, and I respect you have a different opinion but words like that only serve to divide the community entirely and annoy those of us who are just as passionate about this game as you. When people come into a Dreams thread to simply troll with comments about how terrible it is or how badly it will sell, we are with YOU 100%. We're talking about the promotional side of things here and nothing more. I was probably the first person to voice concern for the repetitive nature of the promotions, and some of the people who are now echoing what I originally said, beforehand echoed what you're saying. But as time has past, they too have noticed this trend.

I'm a big Dreams fan and have also followed this game as closely as you and just like you, who has built a forum for this game, I'm going to be building my Youtube channel around this game. So please, don't stoop to the 'toxic' label, it's poor form.
 
From what I remember when I asked about it, it was from a trailer that showed stuff made in Dreams? If someone else can shed any light on it, though...

ETA: found it...

Yeah it was an E3 trailer. I imagine like most E3 things half of it was smoke and mirrors. I doubt they've actually built any fully-functional racing games yet.
 
Is nobody else seeing the complete lack of imagination coming from the MM team? It's so stark and obvious it hurts my brain to think nobody else is seeing it.

With all these condescendants statements directed toward MM and the communities since the beginning of the thread, you will look like a real ass if you can't deliver good quality experience ;)

We'll be looking at you buddy
 
With all these condescendants statements directed toward MM and the communities since the beginning of the thread, you will look like a real ass if you can't deliver good quality experience ;)

We'll be looking at you buddy
That's ridiculous. There are people here and in the LBP community that will blow by efforts away. What I've been talking about is the repetitive nature of the demonstrations, using the same assets and the same ideas. That's a lack of imagination. It's not about how good those levels/games are, it's about not being able to step out of the box and do something new each time. For a tool we all know is endless in its possibilities, MM are doing a terrible job of showing it. That's the point myself and others have been making.

If you feel driving negative comments to my channel is in any way 'fair' then you, my friend, are a piece of work.
 
That's ridiculous. There are people here and in the LBP community that will blow by efforts away. What I've been talking about is the repetitive nature of the demonstrations, using the same assets and the same ideas. That's a lack of imagination. It's not about how good those levels/games are, it's about not being able to step out of the box and do something new each time. For a tool we all know is endless in its possibilities, MM are doing a terrible job of showing it. That's the point myself and others have been making.

If you feel driving negative comments to my channel is in any way 'fair' then you, my friend, are a piece of work.
Calm down lol. Most people in this thread are already sold on Dreams. Did you ever think that MediaMolecule is not trying to convince you 'more' but instead is trying to reach out to those that are seeing these demo's for the 1st time? It's normal that they show basic stuff over and over. The more advanced stuff would be cool to see but come on, we already know we are gonna buy that game. The beta levels that we do is what they'll show as a vitrine of what's possible.
 
Calm down lol. Most people in this thread are already sold on Dreams. Did you ever think that MediaMolecule is not trying to convince you 'more' but instead is trying to reach out to those that are seeing these demo's for the 1st time? It's normal that they show basic stuff over and over. The more advanced stuff would be cool to see but come on, we already know we are gonna buy that game. The beta levels that we do is what they'll show as a vitrine of what's possible.
Calm down? Are you insane? He's basically just called for people like you to keep and eye on me. He's inviting people to troll my channel when I get it going. Yeah, that pisses me off. Am I the only one that's noticed how repetitive MM have been? No. As I pointed out, in the recent video the MM dev just copied what someone did in a previous stream. It shows a lack of imagination.

Take Foxy. Set up a top down camera. Add enemies spawning from an emitter. Robotron. It's THAT easy to come up with new ways of demoing their game but instead for literally a year we saw the same piece of land, the same piece of wood, the same animation of that wood and the same lava. Taking all of those same pieces, they could easily have done something different, so it's not just a simple matter of them not having compatible assets. It's a lack of imagination.

Their promotional strategy has been terrible overall.
 
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Calm down? Are you insane? He's basically just called for people like you to keep and eye on me. He's inviting people to troll my channel when I get it going. Yeah, that pisses me off. Am I the only one that's noticed how repetitive MM have been? No. As I pointed out, in the recent video the MM dev just copied what someone did in a previous stream. It shows a lack of imagination.

Take Foxy. Set up a top down camera. Add enemies spawning from an emitter. Robotron. It's THAT easy to come up with new ways of demoing their game but instead for literally a year we saw the same piece of land, the same piece of wood, the same animation of that wood and the same lava. Taking all of those same pieces, they could easily have done something different, so it's not just a simple matter of them not having compatible assets. It's a lack of imagination.

Their promotional strategy has been terrible overall.
I honestly think he was just joking, but ok i get why you're upset. However, don't worry, we won't judge or troll your Dreams channel...

They have shown different things though.. The TGS demo was new and some new tools were shown (the goal stuff). Anyway, like i said, the beta has always been the way they like to show the game. With LBP they also adertised with what the community already did in the beta.
 
Loudmouse, you're just being incessantly negative and none of us need it. Can you just keep it about the game and stop complaining about MMs promotional strategy. They're a small team with limited resources to be endlessly creating new demos to show off at each new show they attend.

Just cool it man, I'm getting sick of your endless bashing and pretend concern for the project.


Edit: I'd much rather the team focussed on finishing and polishing the game than have half the team working on new one off things to show off. Anyone following the game knows what is possible and it is virtually limitless. That will be for the community to show off. Everyone else doesn't follow the game so the demos they have are all new to them.
 
I honestly think he was just joking, but ok i get why you're upset. However, don't worry, we won't judge or troll your Dreams channel...

They have shown different things though.. The TGS demo was new and some new tools were shown (the goal stuff). Anyway, like i said, the beta has always been the way they like to show the game. With LBP they also adertised with what the community already did in the beta.
Well, if he was joking then I apologise for the post. Like I said, it's not about the quality of the levels they've been showing off, it's just the way each stream seems to repeat. I actually thought the two previous streams were a little more refreshing. Yes they used exactly the same assets and stage again but at least in the second stream the guy set up something slightly different that showed off some new uses of the tools. But then, in this stream, the dev copies exactly how he made the balloon and set the balloon up and then, to top it off, did exactly the same with colouring the balloons and emitting them.

I love MM and the community that built around it but they're methods of promoting their game has been awful. It's just frustrating to watch, especially when we have to wait a month to see another video from a game that has endless possibilities. I keep saying to the real 'trolls' it has endless possibilities and it would be nice to be able to shut them up by showing that endless possibility. The repetition is not doing the game any favours at all. It IS simply a matter of imagination and using the same assets and tools in unique ways.

Just task John with demoing this game and let him do what he wants. I have a feeling he'll show it off better than most.
 
I honestly think he was just joking,
Yeah pretty much. I didnt even know he had a channel.

But now in all honestly LoudMouse you've been by far the most incisive here from the start, so yeah, we kinda expect you to live up to this (channel involved or not).
You need to be prepared to receive same amount of criticism you allow yourself to cast on others, otherwise that's just not fair right? And that's not really trolling (and my involvment has little meaning here), it's only you making yourself visible right now for the months to come by bitching whenever something pains your expectations or feelings.

You won't stop people from saying (to themselves or others) : "That dude has done crappy things, so why was he complaining so much to begin with?"

dont you agree?
 
Yeah pretty much. I didnt even know he had a channel.

But now in all honestly LoudMouse you've been by far the most incisive here from the start, so yeah, we kinda expect you to live up to this (channel involved or not).
You need to be prepared to receive same amount of criticism you allow yourself to cast on others, otherwise that's just not fair right? And that's not really trolling (and my involvment has little meaning here), it's only you making yourself visible right now for the months to come by bitching whenever something pains your expectations or feelings.

You won't stop people from saying (to themselves or others) : "That dude has done crappy things, so why was he complaining so much to begin with?"

dont you agree?
I'm assuming, because my complaints have been about promotions, that all I have to do is take the assets they've been using and use them in imaginative ways? I can do that, no problem. On the other hand, if you're going to take my content and judge it against the best levels MM have made or the community have made, then that would be disingenuous. You see, what you have now done is moved the narrative and misinformed any new viewers about 'who I am' and 'why I've been complaining'. My job isn't to promote the game when it releases. Everything I'm saying is related to promotions, not the inability of MM to make great content. Given 5 years of planning, I'm sure MM can come up with solid content, but clearly a lot of their devs struggle with the immediacy of a live stream.
 
Look at what Mark Healy did at E3 2018. He knew people had seen the whole wooden bridge, lava cookie bit dozens of times by that point, so he went ahead and showed everyone how to make a simple enemy real quickly, which also allowed us to see a model change during gameplay on Foxy. It was the same concepts being presented, but in a refreshing way.

The EGX session that Peter did by himself was also quite good. Showed off a bunch of interesting stuff pretty quickly.

Mm does stuff better on accident than when they're actively trying to present something. They just need to turn off PR mode and be themselves.
 
I kind of think of myself as a Nintendo gamer in some ways, but for a couple of years I’ve only really been hyped for 2 games; ace combat 7 and Dreams.

Unfortunately I also work in marketing. When I run into a new client they will often think like the people in this thread ‘I’ve seen this before, let’s show something different every time’. Those clients are too close to the product.

There are literally tens of millions (very big number) of people with playstation 4s already, and most of them have never even heard of Dreams. Just because you know all about it doesn’t mean that 99% of viewers are bored with it. In fact the marketers have obviously come up with a plan (and I hate to stick up for product marketers) to go to these live events and show streams every month, highlighting a new specific feature for that timeframe: character control, modelling, logic, sound (keeping invested players somewhat interested month to month, not day to day).

If the presentation got really in-depth, it would confuse the shit out of first time viewers. If you changed message from day to day, you would not be able to reach a significant amount of people with that message. And that message has been devised very specifically to show of a key point of gameplay in a simple and effective way. If you complain about that it would be like going to a retail store and pushing a normal customer out of the way and yelling at the salesman ‘boooooooriiiiiiiing! I’ve watched you do this every day for a week!’

Basically if you have seen someone talk about balloons and fireworks too many times, take a fucking break, and let the rest of the planet catch up plz.
 
Look at what Mark Healy did at E3 2018. He knew people had seen the whole wooden bridge, lava cookie bit dozens of times by that point, so he went ahead and showed everyone how to make a simple enemy real quickly, which also allowed us to see a model change during gameplay on Foxy. It was the same concepts being presented, but in a refreshing way.

The EGX session that Peter did by himself was also quite good. Showed off a bunch of interesting stuff pretty quickly.

Mm does stuff better on accident than when they're actively trying to present something. They just need to turn off PR mode and be themselves.
Yes, and the reason he did that was because I had a lengthy conversation with Hollie on her channel explaining how the LBP community are getting frustrated with seeing the same things. I was the 'feedback' she was referring to in that stream that helped spur him to do something different.

This example is perfect though. It shows quite clearly that Healey knows people are getting sick of seeing the same things which lends credence to what I and others have been saying. To pretend this isn't a problem is not in any way productive. It's productive to mention it and voice our annoyance.
 
I guess my question to the “don’t show complicated stuff it’ll scare ppl off” posts are who exactly do y’all think are watching these streams?
I don’t think it’s “don’t show complicated stuff it’ll scare ppl off” , I think it’s “repeat this specific aspect of gameplay for this amount of time at this many shows, so that this estimated amount of people get to view this same message and have the same chance of becomeing interested in the game”.
 
I guess my question to the “don’t show complicated stuff it’ll scare ppl off” posts are who exactly do y’all think are watching these streams?
I know, right. Only those that are hungry for Dreams watch those streams so there was no excuse to simply show the same thing for years. MM have got this idea that they need to keep showing the same thing in order to grab a wider demographic but I do not believe that's effective. Dreams is a service to provide content in exactly the same way Youtube does. What they should be doing is providing information for those people who are going to contribute to the content for that service and it's THAT that will promote the game.
 
Myopia and solipsism and not great qualities when you are talking about an audience of millions.

But what do they know. Apparently they changed their entire presentation because of your specific feedback. That sounds plausible
 
Myopia and solipsism and not great qualities when you are talking about an audience of millions.

But what do they know. Apparently they changed their entire presentation because of your specific feedback. That sounds plausible
Believe or not, I don't care but I was that 'feedback' she was referring to. She mentioned it and therefore we can assume Healey was inspired to do something different. Some of us live in reality and some people just want to defend because they're stuck in the 'he's trolling' mindset. I'm not trolling. I want the best for this game and don't think we're getting it (at the moment).
 
Believe or not, I don't care but I was that 'feedback' she was referring to. She mentioned it and therefore we can assume Healey was inspired to do something different. Some of us live in reality and some people just want to defend because they're stuck in the 'he's trolling' mindset. I'm not trolling. I want the best for this game and don't think we're getting it (at the moment).
... we get it.. please move on.. imagine someone coming in this thread for the 1st time... you sure aren't giving it a good image neither.
 
what you have now done is moved the narrative and misinformed any new viewers about 'who I am' and 'why I've been complaining'
That's not really what I have done if you read carefuly. It's only about the way you say things, content is secondary here. I'm just saying it's mostly over the top, sometimes condescending, some other times over-interpreting (like right now), sometimes borderline rude and entitled ... so yeah, my point is only that people will be looking at the quality/value of what you are doing even more so.

That's what it implies making oneself standing out. Nothing more, nothing less. Offending you was not my point, sorry.
 
That's not really what I have done if you read carefuly. It's only about the way you say things, content is secondary here. I'm just saying it's mostly over the top, sometimes condescending, some other times over-interpreting (like right now), sometimes borderline rude and entitled ... so yeah, my point is only that people will be looking at the quality/value of what you are doing even more so.

That's what it implies making oneself standing out. Nothing more, nothing less. Offending you was not my point, sorry.
Fair enough.
 
Believe or not, I don't care but I was that 'feedback' she was referring to. She mentioned it and therefore we can assume Healey was inspired to do something different. Some of us live in reality and some people just want to defend because they're stuck in the 'he's trolling' mindset. I'm not trolling. I want the best for this game and don't think we're getting it (at the moment).
I just think it would be more realistic if your ‘reality you live in’ was not just centred around you and all of the other guaranteed sales you are advocating for, but also for all of the other millions of people that aren’t actually searching for the keyword ‘Dreams’ every day.
 
I just think it would be more realistic if your ‘reality you live in’ was not just centred around you and all of the other guaranteed sales you are advocating for
Cant say it better than that. Being the major audience right now for this game we just tend sometimes to forget vast majority of folks will discover this game when it's out. By this time we can count on the standard promotion sony will do (media molecule will not handle that themselves).

Time does not flow for these people the same way it flows for us regarding that game (we are sort of monomaniac in general here other games dont really interest us anymore )

Second layer of promotion will be ongoing from beta launch till end of game's life cycle by people creating and emulating... but even this will be pretty marginal at start.
 
... we get it.. please move on.. imagine someone coming in this thread for the 1st time... you sure aren't giving it a good image neither.
But this is the irony isn't it. The only time this thread is as active as it is right now is when people complain there's nothing much to talk about. That's the bottom line here. If they did something different in each stream and showed a little more in depth look at the tools, we'd have conversations about that instead. But, after every stream, we just get a few comments and then the thread dies again.

This thread is a measure of that inability to communicate the possibilities of Dreams. If someone came into this thread and talked nonsense about Dreams, I'd put that right, or at least try to. I've done it many times over the months and years. At which point, I got accused of being a Dreams fanboy. I actually made a comment on a Youtube video recently because the guy didn't seem to understand at all what Dreams was. Then someone (presumably from here) because I don't discuss it much elsewhere, came in and said 'don't listen to him, he's a well known Dreams fanboy and won't except anything negative said about the game'.

You are seeing ONE window of my years of comment and you're seeing it in a thread that's nearly always dead until I complain, just as clearly, the person who commented in that video had seen another window of my years of comment. This is the problem with forums.
 
But this is the irony isn't it. The only time this thread is as active as it is right now is when people complain there's nothing much to talk about. That's the bottom line here. If they did something different in each stream and showed a little more in depth look at the tools, we'd have conversations about that instead. But, after every stream, we just get a few comments and then the thread dies again.

This thread is a measure of that inability to communicate the possibilities of Dreams. If someone came into this thread and talked nonsense about Dreams, I'd put that right, or at least try to. I've done it many times over the months and years. At which point, I got accused of being a Dreams fanboy. I actually made a comment on a Youtube video recently because the guy didn't seem to understand at all what Dreams was. Then someone (presumably from here) because I don't discuss it much elsewhere, came in and said 'don't listen to him, he's a well known Dreams fanboy and won't except anything negative said about the game'.

You are seeing ONE window of my years of comment and you're seeing it in a thread that's nearly always dead until I complain, just as clearly, the person who commented in that video had seen another window of my years of comment. This is the problem with forums.
Dude, i'll forget about you by tomorrow lol. Why has this become a reputation thing? The only reason this thread is active is because people are arguing with your negativism lol.
 
But this is the irony isn't it. The only time this thread is as active as it is right now is when people complain there's nothing much to talk about. That's the bottom line here. If they did something different in each stream and showed a little more in depth look at the tools, we'd have conversations about that instead. But, after every stream, we just get a few comments and then the thread dies again.

This thread is a measure of that inability to communicate the possibilities of Dreams. If someone came into this thread and talked nonsense about Dreams, I'd put that right, or at least try to. I've done it many times over the months and years. At which point, I got accused of being a Dreams fanboy. I actually made a comment on a Youtube video recently because the guy didn't seem to understand at all what Dreams was. Then someone (presumably from here) because I don't discuss it much elsewhere, came in and said 'don't listen to him, he's a well known Dreams fanboy and won't except anything negative said about the game'.

You are seeing ONE window of my years of comment and you're seeing it in a thread that's nearly always dead until I complain, just as clearly, the person who commented in that video had seen another window of my years of comment. This is the problem with forums.
Dude, you sound way too invested in this right now, especially on a forum. You said you’re starting a YouTube channel and Dreams content is gonna be the main driver. I’d be interested in watching some videos of you expressing your thoughts and views on the current state of Dream right now. I’d even help you share the videos if you were interested. It seems like a good time to get started if you haven’t already.
 
I just think it would be more realistic if your ‘reality you live in’ was not just centred around you and all of the other guaranteed sales you are advocating for, but also for all of the other millions of people that aren’t actually searching for the keyword ‘Dreams’ every day.
I get that. I just don't think it's the right way to promote the game. It worked for LBP because it was seen as a platformer first. Dreams is the opposite. It's a blank slate with tools to fill it. You can't use the same strategy otherwise you end up with the two videos I posted recently. People then look at the games made with Dreams and think that IS Dreams. Then by association, those games are judged as Dreams and therefor represent Dreams to the passing audience. As difficult as it may be, they should be promoting this a a development tool and aiming it at the huge audience that already understands what it is and will be providing content. THAT content is what will promote it to a wider audience.
 
Dude, you sound way too invested in this right now, especially on a forum. You said you’re starting a YouTube channel and Dreams content is gonna be the main driver. I’d be interested in watching some videos of you expressing your thoughts and views on the current state of Dream right now. I’d even help you share the videos if you were interested. It seems like a good time to get started if you haven’t already.
I want to get started but I've only got a PS4 and don't know how to grab footage to use. This laptop (had to hit 'o' there three times) is just not capable enough to put together anything decent. I wouldn't even know where to start. Look, I'm sorry I have to be the one to complain, I really don't want to, but I just can't help it. I'm so passionate about Dreams and that ramps up my frustration. Dreams is going to be FANTASTIC!
 
Are gamers like Upsilandre on this forum btw? Upsilandre is the guy that made the calculator in LBP. This was in LBP 1 by the way, not the 2nd one. IT was hugely impressive with the tools that were given. I would love to see what he'll come up with the Dreams tool.

For anyone wondering, check this out:
 
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