Star Trek Discovery |OT| To Boldly go into the new streaming era

It's kind of ironic how a Star Trek show rallied against by many die hard fans ends up being so successful that it helps bring back something they've essentially complained Discovery is not (more TNG/post Nemesis Trek).
 
It's kind of ironic how a Star Trek show rallied against by many die hard fans ends up being so successful that it helps bring back something they've essentially complained Discovery is not (more TNG/post Nemesis Trek).
This has always been my hope. Yeah I get that not everyone likes it or the JJ films, but they got other people enjoying trek and more importantly they got people spending money on it.

Unlike Stargate Origins which was a colossal turd from start to finish.
 
I haven't gotten around to watching Stargate Origins but people seem to be hinting that there is some kind of Stargate revival news coming soon so maybe it also did it's job.
I beg you. If you love stargate as I do (I like all of it, tho Universe less obvs) don't waste your time on Origins. Wife and I watched everything Stargate in under 12 months and finished just about 2 weeks ago, it was my first rewatch, and her first ever. When we got to origins we both went in blind.

We both said it was never to be watched again. The rest of it she's already looking forward to rewatching haha.

If it did its job then great, but the fan response to Stargate not being dead might have helped just as much as the throwback of Origins as it was not too popular.

The recent revival of some decent sci-fi shows may also have helped. It felt like we had so little for so long and then we get things like Expanse, Killjoys, Dark Matter, and then obviously Disco and Lost in space. All might have helped MGM feel that people are ready for more.
 
I do wonder what I want from a Stargate revival.

The SG1 cast are starting to show their age a bit but they'll always be my favourites and with Christopher Judge being one of the people hinting at the revival it makes you think he'd be involved.

I guess it would be nice to get that tv movie that was supposed to happen showing the return of Atlantis to the Pegasus galaxy but you probably wouldn't get Ronan back at this point.

Universe I enjoyed at the time for the most part but I dont really care enough about it to want it back.

A whole new team out of Stargate Command could be good. My only issue being that I always prefered Stargate when we were the underdogs with modern day technology so as they got access to more advanced technology and ships (understandably so) it lost a bit for me and any show set after everything that went before it would have to keep these new elements.
 
I do wonder what I want from a Stargate revival.

The SG1 cast are starting to show their age a bit but they'll always be my favourites and with Christopher Judge being one of the people hinting at the revival it makes you think he'd be involved.

I guess it would be nice to get that tv movie that was supposed to happen showing the return of Atlantis to the Pegasus galaxy but you probably wouldn't get Ronan back at this point.

Universe I enjoyed at the time for the most part but I dont really care enough about it to want it back.

A whole new team out of Stargate Command could be good. My only issue being that I always prefered Stargate when we were the underdogs with modern day technology so as they got access to more advanced technology and ships (understandably so) it lost a bit for me and any show set after everything that went before it would have to keep these new elements.
That's the problem with Stargate right now. Earth is already the superpower in the galaxy. Either bad shit has to have happened or its another Atlantis style mission. We all know how much people like prequels haha.
 
It's kind of ironic how a Star Trek show rallied against by many die hard fans ends up being so successful that it helps bring back something they've essentially complained Discovery is not (more TNG/post Nemesis Trek).
Is it though? People hated on TNG at the start, though TNG season 1 was way worse than what we had with Discovery...
 
It's kind of ironic how a Star Trek show rallied against by many die hard fans ends up being so successful that it helps bring back something they've essentially complained Discovery is not (more TNG/post Nemesis Trek).
That's one way to look at it. Here's another.

Star Trek fans will give any new Star Trek content a shot. Discovery was successful but part of the fanbase didn't take to it and The Orville, a blatant TNG rip off, also did well. So the people in charge thought that they should diversify their offering more and try to offer something for everyone to encourage people to subscribe. If you are paying the subscription for the Picard show you might as well give Discovery another shot and vice versa.
 
Not sure why some hate on Discovery so much. I'm someone that's always wanted to hop into the series but found the lore to be impenetrable. I've seen all the movies but only a smattering of the various shows through the years. Discovery made me want to jump into the rest of the television offerinfs, rather than dismiss them as being too much to watch. It did its job.
 
That's one way to look at it. Here's another.

Star Trek fans will give any new Star Trek content a shot. Discovery was successful but part of the fanbase didn't take to it and The Orville, a blatant TNG rip off, also did well. So the people in charge thought that they should diversify their offering more and try to offer something for everyone to encourage people to subscribe. If you are paying the subscription for the Picard show you might as well give Discovery another shot and vice versa.
The Picard show wont just be TNG 2.0 like Orville so I doubt Orville is why we got the show. We already know Picard wont be a captain in this and Stewart hinted Picard is going to be very different than we knew him before.
 
The Picard show wont just be TNG 2.0 like Orville so I doubt Orville is why we got the show. We already know Picard wont be a captain in this and Stewart hinted Picard is going to be very different than we knew him before.
Sure. We'll see if it's something that resonates more with TNG fans due to the presence of Picard but I assume it's going to be at least somewhat different than Discovery.
 
Is it though? People hated on TNG at the start, though TNG season 1 was way worse than what we had with Discovery...
I mean lots who hated it wanted it to crash and burn. If it had it's likely we wouldn't be getting all these new Star Trek tv shows being made.

That's one way to look at it. Here's another.

Star Trek fans will give any new Star Trek content a shot. Discovery was successful but part of the fanbase didn't take to it and The Orville, a blatant TNG rip off, also did well. So the people in charge thought that they should diversify their offering more and try to offer something for everyone to encourage people to subscribe. If you are paying the subscription for the Picard show you might as well give Discovery another shot and vice versa.
Is there any evidence The Orville influenced CBS' decision at all? I really doubt the new Picard show will be anything like Orville or classic TNG other than having Picard and being set in a closer time period.
 

Poodlestrike

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I liked Disco Klingons just fine, but it's understandable they'd want to tweak 'em. I think Maledict is probably on the money about the practical cost, it's a very cool makeup but you could tell it limited expressiveness and must've taken ages to put on. Kinda expecting a middle point between the new designs and TNG.

I do wonder what I want from a Stargate revival.

The SG1 cast are starting to show their age a bit but they'll always be my favourites and with Christopher Judge being one of the people hinting at the revival it makes you think he'd be involved.

I guess it would be nice to get that tv movie that was supposed to happen showing the return of Atlantis to the Pegasus galaxy but you probably wouldn't get Ronan back at this point.

Universe I enjoyed at the time for the most part but I dont really care enough about it to want it back.

A whole new team out of Stargate Command could be good. My only issue being that I always prefered Stargate when we were the underdogs with modern day technology so as they got access to more advanced technology and ships (understandably so) it lost a bit for me and any show set after everything that went before it would have to keep these new elements.
As much as I love SG-1 (and I LOVE SG-1) I think they have to do a reboot for the reason you outlined in the last paragraph: the core concept got played all the way through to completion. They beat the Go'auld, they beat the Ori, they beat the Replicators. Humanity is (unbeknownst to most everybody on Earth) running multiple galaxies now. The way it happened was fantastic (like a live-action XCOM, seriously), but there's no more there there. Take it back to the SG-1 starting point and reintroduce the Go'auld, but play it out differently. I'd watch it.

Have the original cast come back as new side characters and authority figures, that's always fun.
 
Is there any evidence The Orville influenced CBS' decision at all? I really doubt the new Picard show will be anything like Orville or classic TNG other than having Picard and being set in a closer time period.
None from what I can see. Expanding Star Trek again seems like it was something they wanted to do. It makes no sense to let Disney have all the scifi success when you have an IP that has a similar if not bigger history on TV. With Discovery showing it being viable and profitable they likely want to use all options out there to help build their service. Their best one at the moment is Picard because of how active Patrick Stewart is acting wise and how beloved the character is. It's why they did the Spock connection. Call back to certain characters are important, give legitimacy to projects and helps capture the attention of people quickly and easier.

They've made a point to let people know it's going to be a different Picard for valid reasons. It's not TNG season 8 or TNG 2.0. We don't know really what it is in the end but have a good idea of what it won't be. With CBS trying their best to push and keep pushing their CBS All Access shows as Emmy contenders along with other awards they're not going to swing in the direction of the damn Orville even if they want to lighten things up. Not when Discovery is the show between the two being praised, etc.

I would actually love to see some numbers on the Orville when it comes to cross interest with that show and Trek. I'm also very curious to see how it does now that it doesn't have the NFL propping it up as a lead in.

If anything Orville was just another scifi show that did well and proved like other recent scifi shows people will watch and want scifi on TV. It likely had as much impact as The Expanse, Killjoys, various superhero shows, etc did in showing there is an audience for genre shows.

I mean lots who hated it wanted it to crash and burn. If it had it's likely we wouldn't be getting all these new Star Trek tv shows being made.
Some people will always consider what they like and are used to as the only valid versions of something. You see it with other series and even industries. TNG was indeed hated by a lot of people back when it came out. Thankfully we didn't have social media then. So many other were able to watch it and form their own opinions. Same with DS9, etc. Same with Discovery. For all the yelling, convincing themselves that others hated it as well season 1 was a success, characters and actors are liked, people are hyped for season 2. The goal post put by its haters just keep being moved further back week after week after week.
 
To be fair, they completely abandoned the Klingon war storyline after a few episodes in favour of a love story.
I don't think that is right. The first half is seeing the Klingons do anything they have to to survive the threat of the Federation. The second half is the Federation doing everything they have to.

The through line, in the first and last episode, is the Federation ideal that you don't take the easy victory. All is not fair in love and war. You aren't allowed to break eggs to make an omelette.

Captain G said it in ep 1. Burnham said it in the finale. It's a consistent story. I think it was done poorly with overdeveloped bad guys. But that was the clear structure of the whole thing.

And the middle? That was about Evil Federation doing whatever they need to survive.
 
So I finally finished watching the second half of Discovery and two things:

1. Episode 13 is one of the best hours of Trek. It was the episode where everything finally came together and felt like a Trek show. Actually, it felt more like a really good Trek movie.

2. What exactly happened to Ash Tyler/Voq? At first, they made it seem like there was major physiological modifications made to Ash's body, so it was like he was a Klingon who was modified. In the later episodes, he says that Voq had his skin flayed and he could remember the process, even mentioning grinding his fingers down. But then there's this whole sequence they go on about two minds inhabiting the same body and they essentially "kill" Voq by removing his mind from Ash Tyler's body.

So what exactly happened? Was Voq's body shaped into a human resembling Starfleet officer Ash Tyler? Was Ash Tyler's personality transferred into the new body for Manchurian Candidate purposes? Or was Ash Tyler's body hijacked by Voq's mind and the physiological damage that Culbert detected was due to torture? Or something else entirely? Tyler says he still has all of Voq's memories and leaves with the other Klingon at the end, which seems to indicate he was really Voq with a Tyler overlay...

I'm really confused
 
What happened is they wanted the stupid twist everyone saw coming but couldn't account for the doc being brain-dead and not knowing so left it vague.

Is especially annoying that TOS has an episode that deals with this and shows how easy detected the Klingon was, yet Voq got a full medical and passed??????
 
So I finally finished watching the second half of Discovery and two things:

1. Episode 13 is one of the best hours of Trek. It was the episode where everything finally came together and felt like a Trek show. Actually, it felt more like a really good Trek movie.

2. What exactly happened to Ash Tyler/Voq? At first, they made it seem like there was major physiological modifications made to Ash's body, so it was like he was a Klingon who was modified. In the later episodes, he says that Voq had his skin flayed and he could remember the process, even mentioning grinding his fingers down. But then there's this whole sequence they go on about two minds inhabiting the same body and they essentially "kill" Voq by removing his mind from Ash Tyler's body.

So what exactly happened? Was Voq's body shaped into a human resembling Starfleet officer Ash Tyler? Was Ash Tyler's personality transferred into the new body for Manchurian Candidate purposes? Or was Ash Tyler's body hijacked by Voq's mind and the physiological damage that Culbert detected was due to torture? Or something else entirely? Tyler says he still has all of Voq's memories and leaves with the other Klingon at the end, which seems to indicate he was really Voq with a Tyler overlay...

I'm really confused
Vog had his body mushed up to be human shaped and then had Tylers mind imprinted on top with a trigger to release Voq.

Thought it was fairly clear myself.
 
So I finally finished watching the second half of Discovery and two things:

1. Episode 13 is one of the best hours of Trek. It was the episode where everything finally came together and felt like a Trek show. Actually, it felt more like a really good Trek movie.

2. What exactly happened to Ash Tyler/Voq? At first, they made it seem like there was major physiological modifications made to Ash's body, so it was like he was a Klingon who was modified. In the later episodes, he says that Voq had his skin flayed and he could remember the process, even mentioning grinding his fingers down. But then there's this whole sequence they go on about two minds inhabiting the same body and they essentially "kill" Voq by removing his mind from Ash Tyler's body.

So what exactly happened? Was Voq's body shaped into a human resembling Starfleet officer Ash Tyler? Was Ash Tyler's personality transferred into the new body for Manchurian Candidate purposes? Or was Ash Tyler's body hijacked by Voq's mind and the physiological damage that Culbert detected was due to torture? Or something else entirely? Tyler says he still has all of Voq's memories and leaves with the other Klingon at the end, which seems to indicate he was really Voq with a Tyler overlay...

I'm really confused
I think they used the Klingon Mind sifter to transfer the essence of Ash Tyler into the former Voq. Like you say, a Manchurian candidate. He was heavily genetically modified and had his bones crushed and compressed to get him down to the right size and shape to pass for human.

It’s Voqs body but a merge of the two minds with Ash bring the dominant one. He leans Klingon in his efforts because saving the Empire was important to Voq. If he can help save it, he’s fine.
 
Vog had his body mushed up to be human shaped and then had Tylers mind imprinted on top with a trigger to release Voq.

Thought it was fairly clear myself.
I think they used the Klingon Mind sifter to transfer the essence of Ash Tyler into the former Voq. Like you say, a Manchurian candidate. He was heavily genetically modified and had his bones crushed and compressed to get him down to the right size and shape to pass for human.

It’s Voqs body but a merge of the two minds with Ash bring the dominant one. He leans Klingon in his efforts because saving the Empire was important to Voq. If he can help save it, he’s fine.
Voq body, Ash memory engram printed over Voq's mind/personality... so now Ash's memory/personality is in a body that isn't his, but modified to look like it.
Cool, thanks everyone. I thought that might be the one of the main possibilities, but the way they spoke about Ash/Voq's minds and body seemed conflicting/vague and threw me off.

Man, what a mindfuck that would be. It's almost like he's not a really real person, but a construct built from someone else, who knows he's in a body that's not his own, but looks like the one he had.
 
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Why are people hating on Discovery so much? Good TV shows can take years to ramp up and hit their stride. TNG didn't really get good until season 3 or so, same with Seinfeld and many other classic shows.
 
Why are people hating on Discovery so much? Good TV shows can take years to ramp up and hit their stride. TNG didn't really get good until season 3 or so, same with Seinfeld and many other classic shows.
People have less patience than when those shows came on because now we are used to having everything right away, with the Internet, and immediate feedback through social media.
 
There’s also the simple fact that if you don’t like something, you aren’t just immediately assume that it’ll be good in a few seasons time so that’s ok. You react to what you’ve seen.
 
Started finally watching this and I really like it. I’m only 4 episodes down but so far it’s great. I do fear that this show will mainly revolve around the Klingon war, that’s fine but at the sama time I would like to see good one off episodes where the crew solves Trek like problems. Unfortunately 15 episodes per seasons probably wont do it. Bring back 22 episode seasons!
 
Meh, people need at least a bit of self awareness to not try and get the show cancelled early. But I guess with modern fandom and the internet you can't really do anything about it.
 
Started finally watching this and I really like it. I’m only 4 episodes down but so far it’s great. I do fear that this show will mainly revolve around the Klingon war, that’s fine but at the sama time I would like to see good one off episodes where the crew solves Trek like problems. Unfortunately 15 episodes per seasons probably wont do it. Bring back 22 episode seasons!
There is a lot of episodes/stuff that does NOT focus on the Klingon War and season 2 is an entirely new story/adventure altogether. Outside a few pacing issues, I personally was pretty pleased with the season and the trailer for season 2 suggest an even better next season.
 
There is a lot of episodes/stuff that does NOT focus on the Klingon War and season 2 is an entirely new story/adventure altogether. Outside a few pacing issues, I personally was pretty pleased with the season and the trailer for season 2 suggest an even better next season.
Good to hear. I have high hopes for the show and for the time I want more TNG esque show then DS9 type of show. I might power through rest of the season today.
 
Good to hear. I have high hopes for the show and for the time I want more TNG esque show then DS9 type of show. I might power through rest of the season today.
I felt like the season got better in the second half. Less pacing issues and such. Wasn't thrilled with how they wrapped up the Klingon story but the rest of the season is a total blast and some fantastic episodes not focusing on the Klingons. Also a lot of really cool twists that will likely blow your mind if you have not had any of them spoiled yet in which case I would say stay clear of any spoilers.
 
What happened is they wanted the stupid twist everyone saw coming but couldn't account for the doc being brain-dead and not knowing so left it vague.

Is especially annoying that TOS has an episode that deals with this and shows how easy detected the Klingon was, yet Voq got a full medical and passed??????
You could suggest maybe the only reason they can scan for it in TOS is because this happened in Discovery years beforehand.
 
I've watched Trek since the original series and pretty much loved Discovery. Funny enough though, it may really have done its job. I watched it with two people who had only seen a couple of the Trek films and they really got into it. I also know at least two or three others new to Trek who thought Discovery was the shit.

They were fascinated by how Discovery used Trek lore especially
the mirror universe.
I explained a lot of the connections to them and history of the lore and they want to go back and dig through relevant episodes in the older shows.

Personally I didn't think Discovery had pacing problems and was exciting from the first episode. I feel some fans were waiting for it to "turn into real Star Trek". But I got into the idea of following a character and not just one general ship and crew. (I actually would have liked the original idea of an anthology series with each season being a different ship and crew.)
 
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It's kind of ironic how a Star Trek show rallied against by many die hard fans ends up being so successful that it helps bring back something they've essentially complained Discovery is not (more TNG/post Nemesis Trek).
Well yes and no according to CBS it was a huge success for their new streaming service but what they won't tell you are the actual numbers and many did not resubscribe to CBS access after their trial was over.

The show also had a rocky production the showrunners on season one was fired replaced with two other showrunners that was fired during the production of season 2 for going over budget and harassing their writers.

I think the Picard show is great since it shows that CBS is finally getting ready to bring out more Trek, but Les Monves the CEO of CBS who famously said he hated scifi and was quoted as saying he did not know the difference between star trek and star wars this guy is still in charge and that has me worried for the future.

http://www.nscreenmedia.com/cbs-all-access-star-trek-discovery-growth-slows/
 
Yeah, you can't pretend that the impact of how media is consumed these days vs when those shows were on are exactly the same terms

Even if they gave us the show we always wanted, which will never happen... I doubt even the Picard series will be free of that, there will still be people saying it ruins the past and wish it went away.
 
I don't agree the show had pacing issues either. It goes back to something said before. I let the show unfold as it wanted to. I wasn't sitting there expecting something to happen or as said "expecting it to become Star Trek". I really dislike that type of thinking. What we got was a Trek show that was trying not to be like the previous shows in terms of formula and setup on purpose. There was an outright refusal to accept that by some people. I was game for that from the start.

Some say they understood that but when you look at some complaints it came back to wanting or expecting that old setup and formula. Which lets me know there was a refusal and an inability to let the show be its own thing. I fully expect the same thing to happen with the Picard show. For as many times they said Picard would be different, it's 20 years later for him there are going to be many people expecting TNG season 8. They're going to be upset he's not always on a ship. They're going to be upset he might be jaded about something. They're going to be upset that it's not going to be episodic, etc. Like comic fans it's amazing how some scifi and Trek fans are against change and new interpretations of things when these genres are founded on that type of thing.

Cool, thanks everyone. I thought that might be the one of the main possibilities, but the way they spoke about Ash/Voq's minds and body seemed conflicting/vague and threw me off.

Man, what a mindfuck that would be. It's almost like he's not a really real person, but a construct built from someone else, who knows he's in a body that's not his own, but looks like the one he had.
Indeed. It's why I'm glad they didn't drop the Klingon focus for season 2. I really want to see the fallout of this for Tyler. I'm not going to lie I kinda want to see if him and Michael end up back together. How they ended that relationship was good I felt given all that happen but it was clear the feelings were still there.

What happen to him is pretty out there but I felt they explained it enough times, adding a bit more each time, to make it clear. Its one of those things where you need to accept what is being said and not think something else is at play. It's out there but yeah this horrible thing happen to him. They were that devoted to the cause.
 
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Voq body, Ash memory engram printed over Voq's mind/personality... so now Ash's memory/personality is in a body that isn't his, but modified to look like it.
So why is his DNA tested as human? Doesn't really make sense at all (like most of DIC)

There’s also the simple fact that if you don’t like something, you aren’t just immediately assume that it’ll be good in a few seasons time so that’s ok. You react to what you’ve seen.
I hate it because it's doesn't have what a trek show has, it's just a generic action show pretty much with a dumb story and not many likable characters. Can't really understand people who prefer DIC S1 over TNG S1, TNG S1 had some good stories and promising characters, while DIC S1 has a main story that is pointless, really. I even prefer Enterprise S1 over it.
 
So why is his DNA tested as human? Doesn't really make sense at all (like most of DIC)
That's how far they altered his body. The surface look will detect him as human. It's only when yo dive deeper you see where the changes are but one normally wouldn't have a reason to go that deep. Culber being more detail focused it seems is why he started looking more closely and saw the changes and that they weren't just from months of torture.

Sawing down bones. Blood, etc replacements. It really does bring into question, I wonder if they're going to hit this later and this was the foundation for it, what is human? If you can take a a Klingon body, alter and replace everything in it but the mind so it can pass as human is it actually a human body? Is it still Klingon? That's what is running through Tyler's head right now and at the end of season 1.
 
That's how far they altered his body. The surface look will detect him as human. It's only when yo dive deeper you see where the changes are but one normally wouldn't have a reason to go that deep. Culber being more detail focused it seems is why he started looking more closely and saw the changes and that they weren't just from months of torture.

Sawing down bones. Blood, etc replacements. It really does bring into question, I wonder if they're going to hit this later and this was the foundation for it, what is human? If you can take a a Klingon body, alter and replace everything in it but the mind so it can pass as human is it actually a human body? Is it still Klingon? That's what is running through Tyler's head right now and at the end of season 1.
You can't alter DNA by sawing down bones or replacing blood, you would need to replace all the cells. So this doesn't make any sense

edit: Maybe it made sense to the writers, but it's as bad as the evolution episode in VOY
 
There is a lot of about Star Trek science that doesn't make sense and is close to magic. This isn't the most outlandish thing in Trek I believe.

No that Voyager episode is in a place all its own.
 
None of the Ash/Voq stuff made any sense. I don't know if they took parts of Voq and placed it into Ash, or took his mind. And they revealed Lorca to be from another universe instead of the badass he was, and then killed him.

Just thinking about this show upsets me.
 
I'm okay with most of the Ash/Voq science mumbo jumbo except for the resolution - when she removed his extra personality with finger-lasers it was goofy as hell. Plus a pretty anticlimactic resolution to that storyline.
 
None of the Ash/Voq stuff made any sense. I don't know if they took parts of Voq and placed it into Ash, or took his mind. And they revealed Lorca to be from another universe instead of the badass he was, and then killed him.

Just thinking about this show upsets me.
I just think about the parts that didn't upset me (i.e. the stuff you mentioned, and the quick Klingon War resolution) and it's still my favorite show right now.
 
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