Star Trek Discovery |OT| To Boldly go into the new streaming era

I don't know if they took parts of Voq and placed it into Ash, or took his mind.
As said above and they said it directly in the show itself. The took and altered Voq's body and placed a copy of Tyler's mind (memories and personality) over Voq's
's. That should be 100% clear cause they say exactly that. Largely those same words.

I can understand not remembering cause it's a been a few months. However the show was very clear and to the point about what happen, several times. There should be no complaint regarding the show not explaining this. They did.
 
As said above and they said it directly in the show itself. The took and altered Voq's body and placed a copy of Tyler's mind (memories and personality) over Voq's
's. That should be 100% clear cause they say exactly that. Largely those same words.

I can understand not remembering cause it's a been a few months. However the show was very clear and to the point about what happen, several times. There should be no complaint regarding the show not explaining this. They did.
So where is Tyler's body? I thought the Doc said he saw signs of torture in the body he examined. What was he looking at when he talked about bones sawed? Voq's? So wasn't Tyler tortured in the same way?
 
So where is Tyler's body? I thought the Doc said he saw signs of torture in the body he examined. What was he looking at when he talked about bones sawed? Voq's? So wasn't Tyler tortured in the same way?
The original Tyler is likely long dead. Maybe they used parts of his body in Voq when they operated on him. That is an unknown. We don't know what happen to his body. If they used parts of his body to alter Voq that would be how they got his DNA.

When Culber examined Tyler/Voq's body what he and others originally thought were signs that he was tortured where in fact results of the operation that was conducted to make Voq look human. I believe Culber says as much. He only realized that when he took an even closer look, beyond what they originally did. The assumption is they looked over Tyler/Voq when he came on the ship but to the degree at which he was examined (it was mentioned he was and his background was checked out. That's how we know Tyler was a real person at some point.) was enough to see if he was fit for duty, healed, not under any normal programming.
 
Klingons don't have that level of technology. In fact, I can't think of any species in Trek-lore that have demonstrated anything close to that level of medical science whereby they could mash together the DNA of one species, stitch it onto another as a shell and still be biologically 'human'.

So rather than transferring his consciousness to Ash, Voq was cut to bits of bone to act as the original 'core' body, and then Ash's DNA was grown on top of that to make an identical replica?

That's like going to an oasis in the dessert, riding a polar bear, to find some water rather than turning the tap in your kitchen.

How does this type of writing inspire confidence in you? lol
 
Klingons don't have that level of technology. In fact, I can't think of any species in Trek-lore that have demonstrated anything close to that level of medical science whereby they could mash together the DNA of one species, stitch it onto another as a shell and still be biologically 'human'.

So rather than transferring his consciousness to Ash, Voq was cut to bits of bone to act as the original 'core' body, and then Ash's DNA was grown on top of that to make an identical replica?

That's like going to an oasis in the dessert, riding a polar bear, to find some water rather than turning the tap in your kitchen.

How does this type of writing inspire confidence in you? lol
I mean, Klingons weren't entirely stupid. They had a mind sifter which is what I imagine they used to break the original Ash

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Mind_scanner

The device was operated by reaching directly into a subject's mind and recording every thought and bit of knowledge within. Designed with variable settings, which determined the amount of force used, it could be a mind sifter or a mind ripper to its subject.
If they had tech like this, god knows what else they had
 
That sort of technology was rife throughout Trek-lore. Splicing two different species to the point of being able to fool doctors (or at least do so at first glance), and then transfer the consciousness of one to another is a different ballgame.
 
Klingons were in space for centuries before humans. Where this assumption came from that they wouldn't be more advanced is something I've never understood. Enterprise as well makes a point to talk about how they're more then just warriors. They have scientist, artist, etc. It's also said Klingons also conquered other species as well. We know Vulcans are more advanced. That's more of a problem with past writers not writing the Klingons as being an advanced and intelligent species. Discovery clearly changing or focusing more on the non-brute side of things is fine with me.

It makes far more sense that they'd be more advanced or as advanced as the Federation. The idea that Klingons are just dumb warriors has always been stupid and bad. It never makes or made sense. I have no problem calling out past shows for this.
 
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Klingons were in space for centuries before humans. Where this assumption came from that they wouldn't be more advanced is something I've never understood. Enterprise as well makes a point to talk about how they're more then just warriors. They have scientist, artist, etc. It's also said Klingons also conquered other species as well. We know Vulcans are more advanced. That's more of a problem with past writers not writing the Klingons as being an advanced and intelligent species. Discovery clearly changing that is fine with me. It makes far more sense that they'd be more advanced or as advanced as the Federation.

The idea that Klingons are just dumb warriors has always been stupid and bad. It never makes or made sense.
I'd argue most Klingon plots in TNG and DS9 are far more better in showing Klingons are a advanced and intelligent species
 
I'd argue most Klingon plots in TNG and DS9 are far more better in showing Klingons are a advanced and intelligent species
I remember a lot of those plots being about either combat and/or them being hypocrites about honor and using it to suit their needs as they conduct subterfuge. I don't remember many or any plots about science or playing up their overall intelligence (not about combat tactics). TNG is pretty about the Enterprise always outsmarting everyone though.
 
I remember a lot of plots being about either combat and/or them being hypocrites about honor and using it to suit their needs as they conduct subterfuge. I don't remember many or any plots about science or playing up their overall intelligence (not about combat tactics). TNG is pretty about the Enterprise always outsmarting everyone though.
Now you're overexaggerating, apart from the Tyler plot there wasn't much science. And the intelligence of the Klingons seems to have increased rapidly over time. (also good example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKNDSVCP960 ) In TNG and DS9, they are a fleshed out warrior race with a problematic honor tradition and in DS9 with complicated politics within and without even. In DISC they are sort of tribal space cannibals/orcs with a space shaman
 
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The whole Tyler/Voq thing could've easily been resolved by saying that they just used Tyler's body, took a 'backup' of his mind before wiping it entirely, imprinted Voq into the empty human mind, then slapped the copy of Tyler back over it again.
 
In a society where you are basically considered weak or without honor if you're not a warrior, it would eventually reach a point where "growing" would cease or slow down by quite a lot. And it really seemed like when we get to the time of DS9 Klingons had reached that point. Hell they invaded Cardassia just for the sake of war.

In earlier times it was probably more easier to conquer but once space became full of warp capable species (warriors) willing to put up a good challenge, most Klingons abandoned the pursue of intelligence over their pursuit of strength.

Though we did learn that only noble blood generally were able to become officers (Martok being an exception), so it's possible that given that many non-nobalblood Klingons knew they would ever only be a warrior to die and never rise in ranks or acquire strength, they might be more likely to try other venues.
 
So why is his DNA tested as human? Doesn't really make sense at all (like most of DIC)


I hate it because it's doesn't have what a trek show has, it's just a generic action show pretty much with a dumb story and not many likable characters. Can't really understand people who prefer DIC S1 over TNG S1, TNG S1 had some good stories and promising characters, while DIC S1 has a main story that is pointless, really. I even prefer Enterprise S1 over it.
DNA tests can be fooled. They made a big deal about how a Klingon body was grinded to fit the mold of a human and how painful and excruciating it was.
 
So why is his DNA tested as human? Doesn't really make sense at all (like most of DIC)


I hate it because it's doesn't have what a trek show has, it's just a generic action show pretty much with a dumb story and not many likable characters. Can't really understand people who prefer DIC S1 over TNG S1, TNG S1 had some good stories and promising characters, while DIC S1 has a main story that is pointless, really. I even prefer Enterprise S1 over it.
Because his DNA was tested.

Generic action show? From the first episode to the last it was about staying true to Federation ideals even if you are in trouble. It's about doing the right thing, a theme repeated 3 times in the show and the ending of the last episode made explicitly clear. You can not like it, that's fine. But it's a morality play that shows people being immoral and some changing their ways. (Others not, often dying.)

You can't alter DNA by sawing down bones or replacing blood, you would need to replace all the cells. So this doesn't make any sense
Of course not. But we can alter DNA now with CRISPR. It's not advanced. They didn't say all they did was saw down his bones or replace blood. They said they know that they sawed down his bones.

You are assuming that anything not explicitly mentioned on screen did not happen off screen. When I criticized Love, Actually for not actually showing these people developing relationships (possible exception: body doubles) I was rebuked for assuming it didn't happen. She pointed out to me that it's just as valid to say it did happen, but is not the focus of the movie.

So where is Tyler's body? I thought the Doc said he saw signs of torture in the body he examined. What was he looking at when he talked about bones sawed? Voq's? So wasn't Tyler tortured in the same way?
We don't know where Tyler's body is anymore, or if it still exists. What Doc interpreted as torture was actually radical reconstructive surgery.

Klingons don't have that level of technology.
We have it now. CRISPR.

So rather than transferring his consciousness to Ash, Voq was cut to bits of bone to act as the original 'core' body, and then Ash's DNA was grown on top of that to make an identical replica?

That's like going to an oasis in the dessert, riding a polar bear, to find some water rather than turning the tap in your kitchen.

How does this type of writing inspire confidence in you? lol
It's not unreasonable to think an honour culture would want to maintain their body, even if changing it that much. People are not logical or rational. They make illogical decisions all the time. He still wants to be himself in his body, even if it radically changes. Remember: he was a Klingon supremacists. If he changes his body's appearance, changes his bodies DNA, and changes his mind, he can still feel like he is the Ship of Theseus. You disagree? Well guess what, people disagree about the Ship of Theseus. The fact that someone who is not you does not agree with you on when they stop being themselves doesn't mean it's sloppy writing.

That said, I do believe Discovery had sloppy writing in Season 1. And pacing problems. They over developed the Klingons at the start.
 
Klingons don't have that level of technology. In fact, I can't think of any species in Trek-lore that have demonstrated anything close to that level of medical science whereby they could mash together the DNA of one species, stitch it onto another as a shell and still be biologically 'human'.

So rather than transferring his consciousness to Ash, Voq was cut to bits of bone to act as the original 'core' body, and then Ash's DNA was grown on top of that to make an identical replica?

That's like going to an oasis in the dessert, riding a polar bear, to find some water rather than turning the tap in your kitchen.

How does this type of writing inspire confidence in you? lol
Discovery doesn't care about what tech belongs when. Klingons meant to look humanish at this point because they didn't have the ability to undo augment virus changes, but they can pull off this BS? Of course the fact they should be looking human is ignored, as is the actual Klingon look.
 
The whole Tyler/Voq thing could've easily been resolved by saying that they just used Tyler's body, took a 'backup' of his mind before wiping it entirely, imprinted Voq into the empty human mind, then slapped the copy of Tyler back over it again.
Or they could a just made the changes visual and had him dodge a medical repeatedly until finally discovered.

Like Seska
 
I'm glad Discovery tried to do something different with the Klingons, since they'd essentially become Space Vikings by the time DS9 wrapped-up. It was far more developed and satisfying than being Soviet stand-ins on TOS, and I would've been disappointed if they hadn't tried to do something different with them in Discovery, so I'm glad they seemed to be picking up the tone and feel of Undiscovered Country and developed from that line. The competition amongst the Great Houses, combined with an insurgent religious crusade, was an interesting take, and I wished more focus could've been placed on it.

One of my main complaints with the first season is that the three main plot lines -- Klingon War, Spore Drive, Mirror Universe -- weren't integrated very well, and the Klingon War got short shrift in service of the other two plots, especially after a great set-up in the Battle of the Binary Stars.

The whole Tyler/Voq thing could've easily been resolved by saying that they just used Tyler's body, took a 'backup' of his mind before wiping it entirely, imprinted Voq into the empty human mind, then slapped the copy of Tyler back over it again.
Yeah, that seems to be the easier options, especially with how easily she removed Voq's mind from the body. My guess is that this was a unique situation since there was a purity aspect involved, and Voq wouldn't want his mind to inhabit a "filthy" body.

I don't know, maybe that's what led to them basically saying, "You know what, let's not overthink this. Maybe we should just use augment virus Klingons as Federation agents going forward." That seemed to work pretty well until TribbleTech™ outed them.
 
One of my main complaints with the first season is that the three main plot lines -- Klingon War, Spore Drive, Mirror Universe -- weren't integrated very well, and the Klingon War got short shrift in service of the other two plots, especially after a great set-up in the Battle of the Binary Stars.
I don't think those were the three stories, however. The entire season was very tightly integrated. It was just done poorly in some regards. I spoke to a published author I know and he says the Klingons were slightly over developed, and over developing your antagonist is a very rooky mistake. But the entire season was one complete story arc with foils and mirroring.

  • The prologue was Burnham trying to survive ("I'm trying to save you") at any cost. In other words, survive by methods that go against Federation ideals.
  • The spore drive was Lorca doing whatever it takes to survive, against Federation ideals.
  • The mirror universe was about the Empire doing whatever it takes to survive or Lorca doing whatever it takes to grab power, against Federation ideas. It was to show what the Federation could become if all it believes in is survival. It's about the darkness in all of us.
  • The Klingon War (post mirror universe) was about the entire Federation doing whatever it takes to survive against Federation ideals. (Doomsday device.)

Deep Space Nine said:
Chief O'Brien: There are rules, Garak, even in a war.

Garak: Correction. Humans have rules in war. Rules that tend to make victory a little harder to achieve, in my opinion.
The through line was the antagonists: the Klingons. They were doing whatever it takes to assure the survival of their race and their culture. That was the start an the end of the Season 1 story arc. It initiated itself by having Burnham agree with them, and ended when Burnham realized that it's more important to stick with Federation ideals, even if they make things more difficult.

Adama on Battlestar Galactica said:
It's not enough to survive. One must be worthy of survival.
I think it was poorly done at times, but the entire season is very tightly integrated along the story arc of sacrificing your ideals and values to ensure your survival at any cost. The Federation is about living for your values. Without that, the Federation doesn't deserve to live, and therefore violating those values is not allowed, even to ensure your own survival.

(You can replace 'Federation values' with 'Star Trek values.')

They fucked up.. there was a lot of turmoil behind the scenes during the first season after all
A lot. I was pleased to hear who the show runner was. I loved his post-Trek work. Apparently that was a mistake. I also didn't like what I saw of American Gods, despite mostly enjoying the book. And the people he brought with him have caused turmoil deep in to season 2. Season 3 will be the first Fuller-free season. Hopefully it will be the best yet.
 
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marathoned this season in a week. Generally enjoyed it. Some of the better space scifi tv show of recent years. Saw the trailer for s2 as well. Do we know if the actors for some of the cast of s1 not in the trailer will be back? Feel like they purposely dangled some threads with georgiou and ash, but these seasons are so short, that you can't really just half ass this stuff, unless all the red matter stuff is tied to klingons or multiuniverses....

We ever gonna get dialogue from robot lady? Like whats her deal? Her costume looks amazing, but she doesn't do anything!
 
marathoned this season in a week. Generally enjoyed it. Some of the better space scifi tv show of recent years. Saw the trailer for s2 as well. Do we know if the actors for some of the cast of s1 not in the trailer will be back? Feel like they purposely dangled some threads with georgiou and ash, but these seasons are so short, that you can't really just half ass this stuff, unless all the red matter stuff is tied to klingons or multiuniverses....

We ever gonna get dialogue from robot lady? Like whats her deal? Her costume looks amazing, but she doesn't do anything!
Her name is Ariam. I feel like she had one or two throwaway lines.

Fun fact -

Airiam's nature has been subject to a number of divergent background statements. StarTrek.comdescribed Airiam as being a "synthetic-Humanhybrid", while Ted Sullivan tweeted that she was an alien. Meanwhile After Trek: "Episode 3" described her species as "augmented alien", while After Trek: "Episode 5", involving Gretchen J. Berg, Neville Page, and Glenn Hetrick called her instead an "augmented Human".

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Airiam
 
I read an interview recently that said they were going to explore the crew a lot more in season 2 (at least compared to how much they explored them in season 1...which was nothing...) So hopefully they'll answer that.
 
Feel like they purposely dangled some threads with georgiou and ash, but these seasons are so short, that you can't really just half ass this stuff, unless all the red matter stuff is tied to klingons or multiuniverses....
Ash is in season 2. They said that his and L'Rell's story will be running parallel to what Discovery is doing. Georgiou should be back though. Did you see the extra scene that was released after season 1?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGRJ4CvOvhc

The new character in this clip is suppose to be in season 2. Now I don't know if all of this will even be finished in season 2 though. Some of this could easily carry over to a season 3. Or it might all combine at some point. Just unknown.
 
So I'm reading ST: Disco Desperate Hours and they are just dragging
Pike
through the mud, and now apparently Micheal and Spock
knew each other as kids but never really talked much? And had't talked in years....oh and no mention of her being like a step sister or anything....
 
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Ash is in season 2. They said that his and L'Rell's story will be running parallel to what Discovery is doing. Georgiou should be back though. Did you see the extra scene that was released after season 1?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGRJ4CvOvhc

The new character in this clip is suppose to be in season 2. Now I don't know if all of this will even be finished in season 2 though. Some of this could easily carry over to a season 3. Or it might all combine at some point. Just unknown.
The hell... like how can yeoh have so much 'range' in terms of her look? She can be a motherly figure. evil warlord, and now... hot evil club lady?
 

Poodlestrike

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Ash is in season 2. They said that his and L'Rell's story will be running parallel to what Discovery is doing. Georgiou should be back though. Did you see the extra scene that was released after season 1?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGRJ4CvOvhc

The new character in this clip is suppose to be in season 2. Now I don't know if all of this will even be finished in season 2 though. Some of this could easily carry over to a season 3. Or it might all combine at some point. Just unknown.
I'm just seeing this for the first time and that guy sounds so much like Alec Baldwin it's tripping me up something FIERCE.

Anyway, Section 31 ties really well into the themes they were working on in S1, and pairing them up with Georgiou is exciting if they manage it right. There's a tendency for badass organizations to get overwhelmed by badass individuals in stories, but if they can keep it in balance I'm very much into this.
 
I'm just seeing this for the first time and that guy sounds so much like Alec Baldwin it's tripping me up something FIERCE.

Anyway, Section 31 ties really well into the themes they were working on in S1, and pairing them up with Georgiou is exciting if they manage it right. There's a tendency for badass organizations to get overwhelmed by badass individuals in stories, but if they can keep it in balance I'm very much into this.
I suppose if you wanted to tie it further into said themes, one could make the inclusion of Georgieu into a sort of... point of divergence, as such, that cements how Section 31 will end up the way we see them in DS9. Like, if she has any influence on the organisation's standard of what is an acceptable cost for the Federation's defense, then it's not hard to see how 'genocide is okay' would wind up in the operating manual.
 

Poodlestrike

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I suppose if you wanted to tie it further into said themes, one could make the inclusion of Georgieu into a sort of... point of divergence, as such, that cements how Section 31 will end up the way we see them in DS9. Like, if she has any influence on the organisation's standard of what is an acceptable cost for the Federation's defense, then it's not hard to see how 'genocide is okay' would wind up in the operating manual.
I could see it. This is our first look at S31 this early, yeah? I wonder if there'll be any significant differences.
 
It is still shocking to me that’s section 31 we’re operating openly in Discovery with those black badges. Even if buy the fact the average crew member isn’t told about the black badges, at the very least Lorca and the seniour staff would have known.
 
It is still shocking to me that’s section 31 we’re operating openly in Discovery with those black badges. Even if buy the fact the average crew member isn’t told about the black badges, at the very least Lorca and the seniour staff would have known.
Lorca was probably impressed that they existed — “I guess it’s not all rainbows and lollipops over here after all.”
 
I could see it. This is our first look at S31 this early, yeah? I wonder if there'll be any significant differences.
Outside of Enterprise, aye. And in Enterprise, while they're shady, their ultimate goals do boil down to actually helping people (in order to benefit Earth). Hell, it's kinda literally the opposite of what they got up to in DS9.

The TOS era is the big hole in the organisation's history at the moment, so Discovery does have an opportunity here.
 
I thought Discovery was a classified experimental ship what only a few Captains and brass knew about.

Section 31 could operate more openly since the crew would also be sworn to secrecy.
 
The whole Tyler/Voq thing could've easily been resolved by saying that they just used Tyler's body, took a 'backup' of his mind before wiping it entirely, imprinted Voq into the empty human mind, then slapped the copy of Tyler back over it again.
But then you will still have the question of Voq’s body, which will remain intact and thus they could place him back to his original body art he end. And it is less a story of sacrifice for Voq.
 
I've seen a lot of pushback online to the idea of further including Section 31 in DSC, and while I agree that I wouldn't want to see them ever become a central focus in the plot or be on display too overtly, I am definitely interested in them having a continued covert presence in the series.
The implication that they may have been aware and involved in Mirror Lorca's placement on the Discovery is tantalizing.

I can't really explain the logic behind black badges, though.
 
I've seen a lot of pushback online to the idea of further including Section 31 in DSC, and while I agree that I wouldn't want to see them ever become a central focus in the plot or be on display too overtly, I am definitely interested in them having a continued covert presence in the series.
The implication that they may have been aware and involved in Mirror Lorca's placement on the Discovery is tantalizing.

I can't really explain the logic behind black badges, though.
They look cool af, that's my internal logic lol
 
Well so far Section 31 has been represented all in black, or mostly black colors. The badges are just new canon that shouldn't exist because they are not Starfleet, they are not Federation.
 

Poodlestrike

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Outside of Enterprise, aye. And in Enterprise, while they're shady, their ultimate goals do boil down to actually helping people (in order to benefit Earth). Hell, it's kinda literally the opposite of what they got up to in DS9.

The TOS era is the big hole in the organisation's history at the moment, so Discovery does have an opportunity here.
No, we got to see Section 31 in Enterprise.
Huh, I have no memory of that.

And the black badges are pure Rule of Cool but it's a pretty great bit of symbolism anyway so w/e.
 
Huh, I have no memory of that.

And the black badges are pure Rule of Cool but it's a pretty great bit of symbolism anyway so w/e.
Reed used to work for them. Section 31 were responsible for helping the Klingons abduct Phlox to find a cure for the Augment virus, and were responsible for keeping Enterprise delayed in attempting to rescue him
 
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