Star Trek Franchise |OT| To Boldly Go.....

Both the Klingon and Romulan fleets were decimated after the Dominion war (even moreso than the Federation), and it was predicted it would take decades for them to fully recover with only the Federation being a real power in the Quadrant in the meantime. By the time of this new series they may only be just starting to approach a level similar to what they had prior to the outbreak of the war.
Cardassians are also nowhere near a superpower anymore and had billions die and their entire government was upended.
Gowron's death and Martok becoming chancellor is a pretty big deal too.
 
Cardassians are also nowhere near a superpower anymore and had billions die and their entire government was upended.
You've also got the Breen probably coming out quite badly from the peace treaty. The Federation wouldn't have wanted to punish them too much, but the Klingons and Romulans likely demanded significant sanctions against them to hold back from invading.
 
What bothers me the most about Romulan being destroyed is that Super Novas aren't random, they should have know way ahead of time that whatever star was near there would have been close to going Nova, either evacuate that region or use the red matter long before it has a chance to blow up. I do think it's an interesting storyline to pursue though so I hope they use it. It should be part of the prime timeline anyway.


Edit: Also it would be cool to encounter the Xendi again, they should still be around.
 
What bothers me the most about Romulan being destroyed is that Super Novas aren't random, they should have know way ahead of time that whatever star was near there would have been close to going Nova, either evacuate that region or use the red matter long before it has a chance to blow up. I do think it's an interesting storyline to pursue though so I hope they use it. It should be part of the prime timeline anyway.


Edit: Also it would be cool to encounter the Xendi again, they should still be around.
How I always fanon'd it up in my head was that the red matter was the X factor. It unexpectedly caused the star to go nova, and then somehow caused the shockwave to propagate to warp speed and it started a runaway reaction when it impacted other systems with the same material. So the Romulans ultimately got wiped because the leadership arrogantly assumed it was not a threat until by which time it was too late to do much of anything. Make it into a cautionary allegory about our current leadership's bullshit "we'll be dead before any bad stuff happens" environmental head-in-the-sand bullshit or whatever.

(For all we know the star could have gone nova because of interference, too—we know that the 24th century has weaponry capable of collapsing a star after all.)

Ultimately, it doesn't really matter. Destroy Romulus, what are the stories you're going to get out of it? Let's not forget they destroyed Vulcan in ST09... to do absolutely jack with that plot point besides "Old Spock Is Helping" references.

To me the more interesting plot point to follow up on years after is the Cardassians. You could take the Cardassians so many different ways after the events of the Dominion War—from rebuilding a civilian government learning from the mistakes of their past, to a reactionary movement akin to the Lost Cause of the American South or Stab In the Back Myth of interwar Germany.

One of the really poignant parts of DS9, even though they did a bad job showing it versus telling, was the idea that the Cardassians were an exceptionally impressive artistic culture, and Garak's lamentation that all that was basically wiped with the leveling of the planet. How does a culture that prides itself so much on its accomplishments and yet is utterly laid waste redevelop?
 
How I always fanon'd it up in my head was that the red matter was the X factor. It unexpectedly caused the star to go nova, and then somehow caused the shockwave to propagate to warp speed and it started a runaway reaction when it impacted other systems with the same material. So the Romulans ultimately got wiped because the leadership arrogantly assumed it was not a threat until by which time it was too late to do much of anything. Make it into a cautionary allegory about our current leadership's bullshit "we'll be dead before any bad stuff happens" environmental head-in-the-sand bullshit or whatever.

(For all we know the star could have gone nova because of interference, too—we know that the 24th century has weaponry capable of collapsing a star after all.)

Ultimately, it doesn't really matter. Destroy Romulus, what are the stories you're going to get out of it? Let's not forget they destroyed Vulcan in ST09... to do absolutely jack with that plot point besides "Old Spock Is Helping" references.

To me the more interesting plot point to follow up on years after is the Cardassians. You could take the Cardassians so many different ways after the events of the Dominion War—from rebuilding a civilian government learning from the mistakes of their past, to a reactionary movement akin to the Lost Cause of the American South or Stab In the Back Myth of interwar Germany.

One of the really poignant parts of DS9, even though they did a bad job showing it versus telling, was the idea that the Cardassians were an exceptionally impressive artistic culture, and Garak's lamentation that all that was basically wiped with the leveling of the planet. How does a culture that prides itself so much on its accomplishments and yet is utterly laid waste redevelop?
Yeah, what happens with the Cardassians is what I want to see the most honestly, there is a lot of interesting stuff you could do.
 
How I always fanon'd it up in my head was that the red matter was the X factor. It unexpectedly caused the star to go nova, and then somehow caused the shockwave to propagate to warp speed and it started a runaway reaction when it impacted other systems with the same material. So the Romulans ultimately got wiped because the leadership arrogantly assumed it was not a threat until by which time it was too late to do much of anything. Make it into a cautionary allegory about our current leadership's bullshit "we'll be dead before any bad stuff happens" environmental head-in-the-sand bullshit or whatever.

(For all we know the star could have gone nova because of interference, too—we know that the 24th century has weaponry capable of collapsing a star after all.)

Ultimately, it doesn't really matter. Destroy Romulus, what are the stories you're going to get out of it? Let's not forget they destroyed Vulcan in ST09... to do absolutely jack with that plot point besides "Old Spock Is Helping" references.

To me the more interesting plot point to follow up on years after is the Cardassians. You could take the Cardassians so many different ways after the events of the Dominion War—from rebuilding a civilian government learning from the mistakes of their past, to a reactionary movement akin to the Lost Cause of the American South or Stab In the Back Myth of interwar Germany.

One of the really poignant parts of DS9, even though they did a bad job showing it versus telling, was the idea that the Cardassians were an exceptionally impressive artistic culture, and Garak's lamentation that all that was basically wiped with the leveling of the planet. How does a culture that prides itself so much on its accomplishments and yet is utterly laid waste redevelop?
Well off the top of my head, you have Romulan colonies without leadership now, you can do a humanitarian/refuge story-line, (topical too) maybe some try to integrate back with the Vulcans, others seek help from Delta/Gamma Quadrant aliens, maybe some worlds are invaded by other aliens trying to pick up the left overs. I'm sure others would blame the federation just like Nero did. It could be the issue that drives Picard back into 'action' trying to navigate all the politics of taking on all those Romulans, it's not like they were trusted friends of the federation the last time we saw them. And of course you still have all the fall out of the Dominion war with the Cardassians.

Edit: I don't know at what time this map takes place but the Romulan Empire is big enough that plenty of planets should have been unaffected by the Supernova. 50-100 light years is a safe distance from one, I'm sure the Star Empire was a little bit bigger than that.

 
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The supernova was propagating through Subspace rather than just normal space though I think, which is how it was able to travel quite so far and be such a huge threat.
Honestly can't remember if that was a Star Trek: Countdown thing or an STO thing, though STO ran with 'this makes no sense' to suggest a deliberate atrocity, rather than a natural disaster.
 
I always thought the Cardassians were a minor Empire and not of much note. All bark and no bite. Bullies who took over a less powerful civilization with the occupation.

The Super Nova doesn't make much sense. I hope it's not canon in the Prime timeline.

I don't expect lectures on Ferengi women's rights... But what about see women on their ships and in power?
 
You know I may not especially like Enterprise but I just got finished watching Similitude and that is a damn good Star Trek episode. I'll be back in a minute, just need to go wipe my eyes.
 
That Bird shape in the logo better not be hinting at Romulans, because if it does then they really have abandoned all pretence of canon.
I'm hoping it doesn't mean that, especially with the red colour scheme, but you can never be sure.
 
So we know what supposedly happened to Archer after Enterprise, do we know what happened to T'Pol and how long she lived?
The only technically canon details, aside of him being there for the Federation charter being signed, are from Archer's biography in the mirrorverse episodes:


So he became the head of Starfleet, Ambassador to Andoria, a Federation Councilman, and then President, having an honorary place in the Andorian Guard.

Commonly presumed elements of his post-series biography are leading the Coalition of Planets against the Romulans in the Earth-Romulan War (as detailed in the Enterprise Relaunch novels), and then in establishing the Federation as a legitimate regional power against the likes of the Orion Syndicate. He also may or may not be the dude Scotty brings up (albeit in the Kelvin timeline) as having used their dog for a test subject.
 
The only technically canon details, aside of him being there for the Federation charter being signed, are from Archer's biography in the mirrorverse episodes:


So he became the head of Starfleet, Ambassador to Andoria, a Federation Councilman, and then President, having an honorary place in the Andorian Guard.

Commonly presumed elements of his post-series biography are leading the Coalition of Planets against the Romulans in the Earth-Romulan War (as detailed in the Enterprise Relaunch novels), and then in establishing the Federation as a legitimate regional power against the likes of the Orion Syndicate. He also may or may not be the dude Scotty brings up (albeit in the Kelvin timeline) as having used their dog for a test subject.
I think you mis-read my question. I said we know all this stuff about Archer but what do we know about T'Pol.
 
I think you mis-read my question. I said we know all this stuff about Archer but what do we know about T'Pol.
...yeah, my brain must have inserted a 'do' there which utterly changed the nature of the question. Sorry about that.

For T'Pol, not a thing. Enterprise relaunch has her extend her formal career in Starfleet, commanding the USS Endeavour.
 
Yeah if they have to keep going backwards (which I wish they wouldn't) then I would prefer to have shows set in more interesting times. Seeing the Klingon war could have been good but for me at least, the fact that it was nu-Klingons still ruined that.
 
Welp, we just finished DS9 yesterday. That quickly rocketed to the top of my 'favorite shows of all time' list. I loved all the characters and the storyline, and I'm not afraid to admit that I got a little teary-eyed at the end knowing our journey with Sisko and the gang is over. Its funny . . . for me, there was no one standout character on the show, they were all excellent. Every single one. Including Morn.

I guess it's best when it ended when it did, go out with a bang on a fantastic note instead of fading out. I feel like that was the problem with Moore's BSG, I never finished it. I made it to the last season and then got severely burnt out, it felt like it was dragging. I can see us rewatching DS9 to pick up things we missed within a year.

We started watching Voyager right after. The shift felt pretty drastic and it pales in comparison to DS9 so far, but we're going to stick with it.
 
Welp, we just finished DS9 yesterday. That quickly rocketed to the top of my 'favorite shows of all time' list. I loved all the characters and the storyline, and I'm not afraid to admit that I got a little teary-eyed at the end knowing our journey with Sisko and the gang is over. Its funny . . . for me, there was no one standout character on the show, they were all excellent. Every single one. Including Morn.

I guess it's best when it ended when it did, go out with a bang on a fantastic note instead of fading out. I feel like that was the problem with Moore's BSG, I never finished it. I made it to the last season and then got severely burnt out, it felt like it was dragging. I can see us rewatching DS9 to pick up things we missed within a year.

We started watching Voyager right after. The shift felt pretty drastic and it pales in comparison to DS9 so far, but we're going to stick with it.
I think as long as you don't go in expecting the same DS9 quality with Voyager then you'll probably enjoy it well enough.

As for DS9 and stand out characters you are probably right but I think if I had to pick one it would probably be Garak. I would still love to see more from him.
 
Nog did make a nice amount of progress throughout the series, I think I just found it all happened a bit too quickly, even with the war circumstances.
I don't think Nog's progress went to fast. His biggest job was as helmsman during the end of S7, and he didn't get promoted past Ensign until the last few minutes of the series.
 
I really enjoyed Garak but I was surprised at home much I liked Nog after
Heh I love both of them. Nog's story arc was great, and surprising, we thought he wasn't going to be that deep of a character. That's one thing we noticed . . . there wasn't any real 'one-note' characters on the show. Hell, even Morn had depth with that one funeral episode about him. And Damar, his arc was fantastic, went out like a boss. But yes, Garak is one of my favorites as well.

One other moment that got me was Bashir and O'Briens bro conversation about 'you love her, but you like me more.' I thought it was both touching and funny at the same time.

I'm actually liking Voyager so far (only halfway through season one), but it definitely feels like a step down. On the other hand, it took me a season to adjust from TNG to DS9, I'm expecting the same.

One question, are there any good DS9 podcasts?
 
I've laid it out before (can't remember if here or the other forum), but I just love how Nog's whole arc is the quietest yet one of the more profound endorsements the show has of the Federation, where much of its memetic status comes from its critiques of the Federation (including some from Nog, of course).

But yeah, DS9 rather leans into the idea that everyone has their own story to tell. It might not be 'significant' in the grand scheme of things (but because this was a space opera television drama, of course they often would be), but everybody's got their own life with their own interests and struggles. Some that might surprise you and, if given the right opportunity, will flourish into something astonishing.
 
I don't think Nog's progress went to fast. His biggest job was as helmsman during the end of S7, and he didn't get promoted past Ensign until the last few minutes of the series.
Yeah it was the helmsman part I thought was too fast. Helmsman on arguably the most important ship in the war effort should not have been the job of a cadet, especially when he was basically taking over for a roughly 300 year old Lieutenant Commander.
 
Yeah it was the helmsman part I thought was too fast. Helmsman on arguably the most important ship in the war effort should not have been the job of a cadet, especially when he was basically taking over for a roughly 300 year old Lieutenant Commander.
I always figured Jadzia was there because they needed someone to put at helm. Unlike TNG, they only had one seat there, so they weren't going to use extras like they did with TNG, where they also had Data up front.
 
Nog did make a nice amount of progress throughout the series, I think I just found it all happened a bit too quickly, even with the war circumstances.
It kinda felt like it came out of nowhere, I just saw him as Jakes annoying friend so I was surprise to see him getting his own story. DS9 did utilize it's cast far better than any other show. TOS was just Kirk, Spock and Bones, TNG was Picard and friends, Enterprise only had Archer and T'Pol/Tripp I guess, Voyager just the Dr and Seven. DS9 even managed to give two TNG crew members good development lol.

Heh I love both of them. Nog's story arc was great, and surprising, we thought he wasn't going to be that deep of a character. That's one thing we noticed . . . there wasn't any real 'one-note' characters on the show. Hell, even Morn had depth with that one funeral episode about him. And Damar, his arc was fantastic, went out like a boss. But yes, Garak is one of my favorites as well.

One other moment that got me was Bashir and O'Briens bro conversation about 'you love her, but you like me more.' I thought it was both touching and funny at the same time.

I'm actually liking Voyager so far (only halfway through season one), but it definitely feels like a step down. On the other hand, it took me a season to adjust from TNG to DS9, I'm expecting the same.

One question, are there any good DS9 podcasts?
Voyager has some really good episodes (but because of the 'reset' after each episode still kinda disappoint) but it mostly just cruises along with 'ok' episodes and a few really really bad ones. Still I enjoyed Voyager more than I thought I would considering how much hate it gets. Just a lot of wasted potential.
 
Still carrying on with the Enterprise rewatch at the moment. I actually think Lieutenant Reed might be my most disliked Starfleet character in all of Star Trek and given that universe includes Dr Pulaski, the human version of the monster from Skin of Evil thats saying something.
 
Still carrying on with the Enterprise rewatch at the moment. I actually think Lieutenant Reed might be my most disliked Starfleet character in all of Star Trek and given that universe includes Dr Pulaski, the human version of the monster from Skin of Evil thats saying something.
Seriously?
What aren't you liking about Reed? I always rather liked him. Maybe it's because I'm British though.
 
Nog did make a nice amount of progress throughout the series, I think I just found it all happened a bit too quickly, even with the war circumstances.
I think it mostly comes down to him being a kid. One year can be huge for a kid.

And his biggest change was when he flipped from being "directionless kid with talent" to realizing that he didn't want to grow up to become a failure like his father, and joining the military out of desperation to be something more/something better/something different (while being surrounded by the military, up to and including the station's Captain being the father of his best friend).

It really seems inevitable once you think of it. Isolated on a station with super-limited growth potential, Nog either needed to settle into his position as #3 in a 3-man family, or he needed to be the first of his kind to look outside of his race for something to do with his life, and through his friendship with Jake, he had already transgressed and stepped outside of the bounds of his race, because the station had no other options for someone like him.
 
Seriously?
What aren't you liking about Reed? I always rather liked him. Maybe it's because I'm British though.
I'm also British.

I just always found him a boring character but his petty one sided rivalry with Hayes from the MACOS just rubs me up the wrong way. The only thing I ever found slightly entertaining was his friendship with Trip but even then he just came across as smarmy half the time. And his mouth is too small lol.
 
And his biggest change was when he flipped from being "directionless kid with talent" to realizing that he didn't want to grow up to become a failure like his father, and joining the military out of desperation to be something more/something better/something different (while being surrounded by the military, up to and including the station's Captain being the father of his best friend).
Does make me laugh that he didnt want to be a failure like his father and then his father goes on to become the most powerful Ferengi.
 
Still carrying on with the Enterprise rewatch at the moment. I actually think Lieutenant Reed might be my most disliked Starfleet character in all of Star Trek and given that universe includes Dr Pulaski, the human version of the monster from Skin of Evil thats saying something.
Even Neelix? Again, only 1/2 way through the first season of Voyager, but it makes me ill just to look at him. His head looks like an uncooked turkey.
 
I'm also British.

I just always found him a boring character but his petty one sided rivalry with Hayes from the MACOS just rubs me up the wrong way. The only thing I ever found slightly entertaining was his friendship with Trip but even then he just came across as smarmy half the time. And his mouth is too small lol.
He gets some more development in Season 4 that might explain him a bit better, so don't write him off just yet.
 
Reed, Travis and Hoshi are just kinda there, they don't even start trying to develop them until season 4 and by then it's far too late to make any difference.

Hoshi was great in the MU episode at least.
 
Travis is basically just an extra for the majority of Enterprise, its basically a running joke like Harry never getting promoted. I disagree about Hoshi though, I think you saw quite a bit of her over the 4 years and understood a lot about her various fears and misgivings. I would go as far as to call her one of my favourite Enterprise characters (plus I have a bit of a crush on Linda Park)
 
Real talk, nobody reminiscing about Jadzia in the final episode of DS9 was dumb. Were they not allowed to use any footage of her?
I'd imagine it was to do with her disagreements with Berman. He was basically the reason she left from what I gather as he was somewhat sexist towards her and outright refused her requests to appear less in Season 7 so she could have more time to work in Becker. It was basically his way or nothing.
Sounds like Berman was happy to just outright blank her out so that they didn't have to pay her any money for using footage of her.
 
Real talk, nobody reminiscing about Jadzia in the final episode of DS9 was dumb. Were they not allowed to use any footage of her?
https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/140790/why-doesnt-jadzia-appear-in-ds9s-final-montage

Apparently the writers wrote a brand new scene for Terry Farrell to come in and perform for the final episode, but then the producers asked her agent how much it would cost to hire her for the day, and then said "LOL nope" when they saw the price tag, because they thought it was too expensive and they were already cutting other expensive ideas from the writers.

And then the subject of clips came up, and when they use an old clip most people involved with the clip (writers, directors) don't get a say in whether it gets used or not, they just get paid a royalty fee, but actors get veto power and they get paid a fee. Allegedly the producers went to Farrell's agent and asked to use the clip, and Farrell's agent exercised Farrell's veto power and said no to the clip.

Meanwhile Farrell herself says she would absolutely have said "Yes!" to having a clip in the final episode.

So we can blame Farrell's agent. Unless the DS9 producers are lying about having asked her agent.
 
It's interesting, I always think of Enterprise as being separate from TNG/DS9/VOY in the distance it aired compared to them (kind of like Enterprise to Discovery now) but the amount of guest stars from other shows popping up is always impressive. Weyoun, Martok, Damar, Odo, Data, Riker, Troi etc. I think I saw Nog's actors name in the credits of one episode as well.
 
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