The Pinball (digital and physical) ERA |OT| Full Tilt

The Williams (and other real-world tables in the future) should be in a separate T-rated game. The problem is Pinball FX3 is E-rated. You can't do squat in an E-rated game. And changing the rating of an existing game is a major problem because it affects families who already own it. The only answer (IMHO) is a new T-rated game.

UPDATE: I got the time to listen to the BlahCade linked above. Sounds like it's going to remain a single game with new descriptors to keep the game E-rated. Zen is a business, not a museum, so they have to do what they have to do.
 
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I mean, I don't really think it'll hurt their sales one tiny bit to change to a T rated game, if anything it'll give them more leeway.

They have M rated themed tables quite often, like Doom, and plenty of PG-13 rated movie tie-ins (like all the Marvel and Star Wars movies are generally PG-13, some are even R rated).

It's weird when the source material is R rated movies and M rated games that they really need to dumb it down to E. But, like The Addams Family in TPA, releasing with alterations is better than not releasing, so oh well. Hopefully they find a way to add it in somehow, I really don't think it's a big loss if they get re-rated to T, I can't imagine you'd really need M to have a picture of a guy with a Cigar, but I don't know. Wolverine smokes quite a bit in the movies, cigars, and they're not rated R, but maybe the standards are different.
 
Why can't they just do what Creative Assembly do with the Total War games? They keep their base rating in the main game, but have a "blood" dlc with a higher rating, for which there is a minimal charge.
 
Why can't they just do what Creative Assembly do with the Total War games? They keep their base rating in the main game, but have a "blood" dlc with a higher rating, for which there is a minimal charge.
I think Mel eluded to that in the interview, that tweaks could be made in Steam, but not in the least on consoles. I imagine they're much more of a pain in the ass to soothe, due to the front and center accessible nature of those versus pc's.
 
From the Pinball FX3 Steam Community


Dear Beta Testers!

The day has come we have to conclude the Beta period on the Williams™ Pinball tables.

We have stood in awe of the amount of feedback that came in on any of our channels. We have been able to use it and make the game better.

Big shout out to the Pinball FX3 Steam community, the Zen Forums, our chatters on Discord, anyone who commented or had ideas to share on the Pinball FX3 Reddit, under our Youtube videos, or on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram.

We owe our gratitude to the admin team and the awesome people over at digitalpinballfans.com who’ve been working tirelessly over alpha and beta period to let our tables resemble the games you know and love.

We have you to thank for relentlessly pursuing the ‘real feel’ with your suggestions. Here is some stuff that improved based on your feedback:

- Overall ball movement
- Overall physics
- Flipper strength, and bounce
- Nudging
- Surface material adjustments
- Dozens of minor tweaks implemented and issues fixed on all 4 tables.

Thank you and see you on the leaderboards October 9.
 
I think people take for granted that companies don’t self censor without reason, especially when handling other people’s properties.

Shit is way more complex than any of us armchair critics realize. Let’s put down the pitch forks and torches for now and see how it plays out.

For me this is like the Pinball Arcade World Cup Soccer > World Champion Soccer makeover, or the alteration of Uncle Fester in Addams Family. Yeah, it sucks but it’s better than nothing. If this is the way it has to be for us to get these tables on these platforms then so be it. I just want to play the games.
I agree with this sentiment a lot, and in that Blahcast video, you can see Mel from Zen is really troubled by the efforts they need to take, to get these tables out under the same rating, as well as the flack Zen is receiving for their efforts in doing so. Of course they want to please their fans, but they also have to comply with ratings standards they've already been operating with for so many years.

That Steam thread is just way over the top with vilification of Zen, and rather than trying to support them and their efforts, and them maybe alterring the tables down the road back to what they have been, there are so many suggesting boycotts of the new tables. That's such a backwards approach, and doing that will certainly never allow unplayed digital tables like Indy, to ever exist.
 
Mel from Zen said that some of Farsight’s tables slipped past the ESRB’s automated process to land on a lower rating than what should have occurred. Maybe Zen is under more scrutiny?
 
Mel from Zen said that some of Farsight’s tables slipped past the ESRB’s automated process to land on a lower rating than what should have occurred. Maybe Zen is under more scrutiny?
Yeah, that was an important comment from that interview.

You can't just up the rating when you already have Disney IP involved and risk fallout with them. (especially if you want that Indy table). It is also a big business risk to launch these in a totally different app with much less visibilty and risk the Williams venture failing.

People definitely need to see it's a tough quandry.
 
Yeah, that was an important comment from that interview.

You can't just up the rating when you already have Disney IP involved and risk fallout with them. (especially if you want that Indy table). It is also a big business risk to launch these in a totally different app with much less visibilty and risk the Williams venture failing.

People definitely need to see it's a tough quandry.
Well the Disney IP they have is from movies rated higher than what it would need to up to. The movies are all PG-13 or R, not sure the conflict in moving to T.
 
Well the Disney IP they have is from movies rated higher than what it would need to up to. The movies are all PG-13 or R, not sure the conflict in moving to T.
The rating of the source movie has no bearing on the rating of the game content itself as counterintuitive as it may seem. Changing the rating of the game itself has impact on the audience of the existing game. If they have to change the game rating for a certain table it affects the perceived suitability of other tables already in the game. If I recall there may also be some sort of opt-in required on the user's part. It becomes messy with multiple IPs.

That part of the video interview where this is discussed is probably the best explanation of the situation and better than I can do here.
 
I mean, I don't really think it'll hurt their sales one tiny bit to change to a T rated game, if anything it'll give them more leeway.

They have M rated themed tables quite often, like Doom, and plenty of PG-13 rated movie tie-ins (like all the Marvel and Star Wars movies are generally PG-13, some are even R rated).

It's weird when the source material is R rated movies and M rated games that they really need to dumb it down to E. But, like The Addams Family in TPA, releasing with alterations is better than not releasing, so oh well. Hopefully they find a way to add it in somehow, I really don't think it's a big loss if they get re-rated to T, I can't imagine you'd really need M to have a picture of a guy with a Cigar, but I don't know. Wolverine smokes quite a bit in the movies, cigars, and they're not rated R, but maybe the standards are different.
They aren't worried about the ratings change affecting sales, they worry about it affecting their partnership with studios like Disney.

Mel from Zen said that some of Farsight’s tables slipped past the ESRB’s automated process to land on a lower rating than what should have occurred. Maybe Zen is under more scrutiny?
Most likely. Again, Zen has close relationships with these big studios and Disney has an image to protect.

Consider that Stern's new Deadpool table has ZERO profanity or gross innuendo. Squeaky clean. Not even an option in settings. The DMD doesn't even feature violent animations.

Disney is fine with the films being rated whatever but the products that license their properties are potentially going to interface with a much larger audience. Deadpool is rated R and most parent aren't going to take their kids to see it. But the Deadpool pinball table might be found anywhere and a kid could walk up and play it.

FWIW, Stern's Deadpool is pretty funny and perfectly captures the spirit of the modern comics despite not featuring the more adult content.

I say the same about Zen's South Park tables (RIP) which don't even feature bleeped profanity. South Park isn't defined by swearing and they nail everything else about the show outside the nasty stuff. You don't even miss it, the tables just feel like South Park.

I'm not going to cry over a missing cigar on the playfield of Fish Tales, or a more prudish mermaid on the side of the cabinet that you will never see while playing. I was honestly more upset about Farsight being forced to alter Christopher Lloyd's face on Addams. But again, it was the only option and it doesn't affect my enjoyment of the table in TPA one bit.

I agree with this sentiment a lot, and in that Blahcast video, you can see Mel from Zen is really troubled by the efforts they need to take, to get these tables out under the same rating, as well as the flack Zen is receiving for their efforts in doing so. Of course they want to please their fans, but they also have to comply with ratings standards they've already been operating with for so many years.

That Steam thread is just way over the top with vilification of Zen, and rather than trying to support them and their efforts, and them maybe alterring the tables down the road back to what they have been, there are so many suggesting boycotts of the new tables. That's such a backwards approach, and doing that will certainly never allow unplayed digital tables like Indy, to ever exist.
It's just people being childish (ironocally) and not using critical thought to understand why things are being done the way they are.

It baffles me that people would rather have nothing than deal with a few minor cosmetic alterations. I feel the same about localizations that self-censor the pervy Japanese stuff.

I'll take Zen's censorship over Farsight's incompetence any day of the week.
 
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Yeah, I am totally fine with the censored tables if that's what it must be (and I get the whole rating being stuck unable to change and Disney wanting a squeaky clean product for all ages), I am just amused at the irony of the average video game that is like MDK everywhere / T&A and scantly clad women (take your pick FPS or jRPG or both in one), meanwhile a pinball simulator gets censored. I guess I never really paid attention to the Wolverine table but going back to look at it, wolverine just isn't wolverine without a cigar either lol. After all what's the point of insane healing if you can't enjoy a smoke that gives normal people cancer?
 
Honestly stuff like bleeping the “who the **** are you” and the censored dragon fight animations is actually a bit funnier to be since it leaves more to the imagination. Kinda like turning on the profanity bleeps in Brutal Legend

Guess that makes me a weirdo
 
Honestly stuff like bleeping the “who the **** are you” and the censored dragon fight animations is actually a bit funnier to be since it leaves more to the imagination.
Another famous example was covering Tharja's posterior in Fire Emblem: Awakening. Made it look like she might not be wearing anything at all.
 
Well, since I've been shamed about boycotting over censorship, I'll buy the first table pack for Switch as an act of good faith.

They really need to work something out on Steam, at least, if I'm to drop a few hundred bucks on tables I already own uncensored in TPA, though.

This whole thing is insane. The Disney licenses they hold are PG and higher. Empire Strikes Back and Deadpool <> Pinocchio and Toy Story. SMH.
 
Well, since I've been shamed about boycotting over censorship, I'll buy the first table pack for Switch as an act of good faith.

They really need to work something out on Steam, at least, if I'm to drop a few hundred bucks on tables I already own uncensored in TPA, though.

This whole thing is insane. The Disney licenses they hold are PG and higher. Empire Strikes Back and Deadpool <> Pinocchio and Toy Story. SMH.
Hmm. Are you being facetious or serious about feeling shamed? I get not being happy about them altering tables, but I doubt this was by their own volition.
 
Aside from the guy’s cigar in Fish Tales, are they altering anything else with the tables or is it just the default family mode?
Confirmed things include the mermaid being more covered up on the side of the Fish Tales cabinet and the DMD animations being altered for the dragon fights in Medieval Madness.

The DMD alteration is a real head scratcher, the violence is very cartoony. Tamer than SNES Mortal Kombat.


(Apparently this gif doesnt loop. If you missed it refresh or open in a new tab.)

I would have thought the violence in The Walking Dead table was worse, but maybe I'm miss remembering or conflating it with the Stern table.

I think they covered this cleavage, too:



The cert process is long, they may have even done more censoring than they needed to just to be safe because they didn't want to delay things with a back and forth with the ESRB. It's possible some of these things will eventually be added back into the game later.
 
Yeah, no shit. Those are fucking insane, I wonder if they're in the current PC beta? Hopefully at least they'll be ready at launch and it isn't an "eventual" thing.

I can't believe they've actually nailed it this quickly.
I can't imagine they would be showing them off to promote the table pack if the physics weren't already implemented. Probably not in the beta, probably in the final build.
 
I wonder how much of the new physics are hardcoded for certain scenarios. Or if a much weaker platform like Switch and mobile could even pull it off if not 'on rails'.

Hmm. Are you being facetious or serious about feeling shamed? I get not being happy about them altering tables, but I doubt this was by their own volition.
There's a lot of talk around on Era and elsewhere saying it's not a good move to 'boycott' over the censorship and people should reconsider.

So I have.

You may not consider it shaming, that's cool. I think it's always shaming telling people that they shouldn't refuse to buy something while having actual reasons.

So like I said, I reconsidered. I'll buy the first pack on Switch (it's at the beginning of a three week trip and I'm taking the Switch) and see how it all plays out. I continue to think this censorship is very regrettable.

Hopefully at least PC owners can just swap out files to remove DMD and audio censorship. Obviously cab art isn't going to be that simple.

Hey, speaking of Switch, is the terribly imprecise plunger control on Pinball FX3 just regular joycon crap, or a sign that my joycon is degrading?
 
I wonder how much of the new physics are hardcoded for certain scenarios. Or if a much weaker platform like Switch and mobile could even pull it off if not 'on rails'.
They've already said nothing is scripted. Switch isn't so weak that it can't handle these physics.

Go back an play Pro Pinball from the 90s, those physics are still pretty darn good compared to other software of the time and that game ran just fine on PS1 and Saturn.

BTW, you really should play Pro Pinball because those tables are great. It's on gog.com. At least get the Pro Pinball Timeshock Ultra Edition, looks fantastic and currently has the most realistic physics I've experienced. That you can get on mobile as well as Steam.
 
They've already said nothing is scripted. Switch isn't so weak that it can't handle these physics.

Go back an play Pro Pinball from the 90s, those physics are still pretty darn good compared to other software of the time and that game ran just fine on PS1 and Saturn.

BTW, you really should play Pro Pinball because those tables are great. It's on gog.com. At least get the Pro Pinball Timeshock Ultra Edition, looks fantastic and currently has the most realistic physics I've experienced. That you can get on mobile as well as Steam.
If nothing is 'pre baked' I'm happy. I just bought $38 worth of the classic Zen tables on Switch tonight, mostly stuff I've never owned on other platforms, though of course that's the old physics that make those tables work.

I will look up Pro Pinball. I remember Epic Pinball, that's how old I am.

I still wonder about joycon plunger accuracy.
 
If nothing is 'pre baked' I'm happy. I just bought $38 worth of the classic Zen tables on Switch tonight, mostly stuff I've never owned on other platforms, though of course that's the old physics that make those tables work.

I will look up Pro Pinball. I remember Epic Pinball, that's how old I am.

I still wonder about joycon plunger accuracy.
If you play handheld you can use the touchscreen to plunge
 
I created a private 24 hour Pinball FX3 tournament if anyone wants to play. Just for fun, felt a little sporting.

Ready for Halloween season!

The Walking Dead
Password Showtime
Classic rules, 3 balls
Limited to 5 attempts

RIP Telltale
 
Looks like the beta on PC has wound up, just back to regular FX3 now :(
Post #2605

From the Pinball FX3 Steam Community
24/09/2018

Dear Beta Testers!

The day has come we have to conclude the Beta period on the Williams™ Pinball tables.

We have stood in awe of the amount of feedback that came in on any of our channels. We have been able to use it and make the game better.

Big shout out to the Pinball FX3 Steam community, the Zen Forums, our chatters on Discord, anyone who commented or had ideas to share on the Pinball FX3 Reddit, under our Youtube videos, or on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram.

We owe our gratitude to the admin team and the awesome people over at digitalpinballfans.com who’ve been working tirelessly over alpha and beta period to let our tables resemble the games you know and love.

We have you to thank for relentlessly pursuing the ‘real feel’ with your suggestions. Here is some stuff that improved based on your feedback:

- Overall ball movement
- Overall physics
- Flipper strength, and bounce
- Nudging
- Surface material adjustments
- Dozens of minor tweaks implemented and issues fixed on all 4 tables.

Thank you and see you on the leaderboards October 9.
 
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I wonder how much of the new physics are hardcoded for certain scenarios. Or if a much weaker platform like Switch and mobile could even pull it off if not 'on rails'.



There's a lot of talk around on Era and elsewhere saying it's not a good move to 'boycott' over the censorship and people should reconsider.

So I have.

You may not consider it shaming, that's cool. I think it's always shaming telling people that they shouldn't refuse to buy something while having actual reasons.

So like I said, I reconsidered. I'll buy the first pack on Switch (it's at the beginning of a three week trip and I'm taking the Switch) and see how it all plays out. I continue to think this censorship is very regrettable.

Hopefully at least PC owners can just swap out files to remove DMD and audio censorship. Obviously cab art isn't going to be that simple.

Hey, speaking of Switch, is the terribly imprecise plunger control on Pinball FX3 just regular joycon crap, or a sign that my joycon is degrading?
I don't think, from what I've read here, that anyone has told another user whether...they...should or shouldn't buy these tables or any product really. That's their money, as mine is mine. We can have overarching opinions on the idea of buying in or not, but I don't feel anyone has branded a user who doesn't, a slacker, or someone who does, a flunkie. You buy what you want to buy, and stand by whatever belief system you want to. To say otherwise feels a bit blown out of proportion.

That Steam thread that was posted days ago, now....that...feels like a group of people that are pressuring others to not buy, and be part of a specific flock. Here, everyone just seems to have opinions.
 
Anyone here know how to code or use something like Game Maker Studio or Unity?

Anyone interested in making a proof-of-concept pinball version of Nex Machina?

I can’t code but I am a designer, graphic artist and music composer. I have a ton of ideas. I just need someone to script it and I’ll handle the rest.

Please link me to the relevant Era threads if you can!
 
Anyone here know how to code or use something like Game Maker Studio or Unity?

Anyone interested in making a proof-of-concept pinball version of Nex Machina?

I can’t code but I am a designer, graphic artist and music composer. I have a ton of ideas. I just need someone to script it and I’ll handle the rest.

Please link me to the relevant Era threads if you can!
I wish I could help... I've always thought about wanting to dabble in Game Maker, prior to it gaining support, and wondered how complex it might be.

I've thought about throwing down, well making some specific art, for use in that Pinball creator you've referenced before. Have you considered that or is it entirely too basic for your needs?

Do you have any samples of your work we could check out?
 
Anyone here know how to code or use something like Game Maker Studio or Unity?

Anyone interested in making a proof-of-concept pinball version of Nex Machina?

I can’t code but I am a designer, graphic artist and music composer. I have a ton of ideas. I just need someone to script it and I’ll handle the rest.

Please link me to the relevant Era threads if you can!
Programming |OT|

Programming A Game With Unity: A Beginner’s Guide

Edit: Didn't see that you asked in the Programming OT.
 
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I wish I could help... I've always thought about wanting to dabble in Game Maker, prior to it gaining support, and wondered how complex it might be.

I've thought about throwing down, well making some specific art, for use in that Pinball creator you've referenced before. Have you considered that or is it entirely too basic for your needs?

Do you have any samples of your work we could check out?
That pinball creator is way too specific and limited for the kind of game I have in mind.

I'm actually in the process of creating a personal website with my stuff but it isn't finished yet.
 
That pinball creator is way too specific and limited for the kind of game I have in mind.

I'm actually in the process of creating a personal website with my stuff but it isn't finished yet.
Oh interesting! Send me the link when you get it done, or PM me some images of your art.

Hmmm....

 

Stinkles

343 Industries
Verified
Here’s my Halo pinball table design by feature. Obviously there’s loads of detail missing, but this I’ve been carrying around in my head for a long time.


1. Ball Launch Plunger - the handle is a Plasma pistol that can be manually pulled back (makes the charging sound and vibrates) or trigger squeezed for same effect - let go to release ball.
2. Secondary/Multi ball - “Oddball!”
3. Bumpers - Covenant and/or human Plasma Coils/barrels
4. Bonus multipliers - double, triple, over etc kills all the way up to Killamanjaro - time based rules to attain multipliers.
5. Table “host” narrator- 343 Guilty Spark for rare announcements, Cortana for regular ones.
6. Temporary scoring state switch (bonus rounds etc) - “Orbital Drop Shock!”
7. Toughest ramp - full loop the loop Halo artifact.
8. Smaller ramp - Mancannon!
9. Loss of ball through center - “Ball Dropped!” “Suicide!”
10. Flippers - just flippers. No need for everything to be gimmicky.
11. Multiple multiball’s (3 or more) “FLOOD UNLEASHED!”
 
Here’s my Halo pinball table design by feature. Obviously there’s loads of detail missing, but this I’ve been carrying around in my head for a long time.


1. Ball Launch Plunger - the handle is a Plasma pistol that can be manually pulled back (makes the charging sound and vibrates) or trigger squeezed for same effect - let go to release ball.
2. Secondary/Multi ball - “Oddball!”
3. Bumpers - Covenant and/or human Plasma Coils/barrels
4. Bonus multipliers - double, triple, over etc kills all the way up to Killamanjaro - time based rules to attain multipliers.
5. Table “host” narrator- 343 Guilty Spark for rare announcements, Cortana for regular ones.
6. Temporary scoring state switch (bonus rounds etc) - “Orbital Drop Shock!”
7. Toughest ramp - full loop the loop Halo artifact.
8. Smaller ramp - Mancannon!
9. Loss of ball through center - “Ball Dropped!” “Suicide!”
10. Flippers - just flippers. No need for everything to be gimmicky.
11. Multiple multiball’s (3 or more) “FLOOD UNLEASHED!”
Id be in trying a Halo pinball! Id make it like Bride of Pinbot, where Master Chief head turn, revealing the mouth, eyes in two holes in the visor, no visor in third form, and when final fourth form happen, like a virus get injected and you see his full face but because of the virus, the face is all scramble and you see freakin nothing.

:)
 
Some encouraging news on the Pinball FX3 Williams censorship front, at least for us Steam users:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/442120/discussions/0/3317353727663998942/?ctp=14#c2747650363454908905
Akos said:
Hi everyone, got an update for you!

Family Mode will be turned off on PC. You will have the ability to turn Family Mode on in the settings if needed. We will continue to work on this issue now and in the future. For now, artwork will remain altered on Fish Tales with references to alcohol and tobacco being removed.

Thanks for the insight and the feedback on this issue
https://steamcommunity.com/app/442120/discussions/0/3317353727663998942/?ctp=15#c2747650363455105308
melchiah_kirk said:
There are still ongoing conversations between Zen and platform holders which may or may not result in changes to our rating. This is as honest as we can be at this time. As things progress, we will keep you updated.

Fish Tales is free for all players. We must absolutely keep the content in line with what our age rating system is. At this time we are not prepared to release a version of Fish Tales without the censored artwork. It is possible this could change in the future, but again, we are going through the necessary steps with platform holders to make sure we would make the changes correctly and in line with what an existing player base would require (notifications, etc.).
I can live with minor image edits -- the ROM setting was the bigger issue for me. So that's good news. Hopefully this will be done for other platforms too.
 
Ratings are evil as fuck. Zappa, among others, warned us about this.

I'd probably buy every table for Switch because portable and buy them again on X1. Instead I'll buy them for Switch and wait to see what happens with Steam. Switch will never be enough for me because no 4K, which I know they are working on for the more powerful platforms.

I don't blame Zen.
 
Ratings are evil as fuck. Zappa, among others, warned us about this.

I'd probably buy every table for Switch because portable and buy them again on X1. Instead I'll buy them for Switch and wait to see what happens with Steam. Switch will never be enough for me because no 4K, which I know they are working on for the more powerful platforms.

I don't blame Zen.
There's always the hope of the Switch 2 in another 4-5 years running 4k docked (for older and less demanding stuff - like this) and being compatible with the current library, so if you're really in it for the long game, never say never. :)
 
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