Why women criticise sexualised character designs |OT2| I have no pants and I must scream (READ OP)

My main frustration is, the original art of Bowsette that set off this nuclear powderkeg, she wasn't honestly that... like, she was in a more revealing dress than regular Peach, and I guess that part of it is sexualized, but the titanic yobbos thing didn't start until later and I'm not really sure what prompted it other than people being horny as fuck on main. I actually think there's a lot of fun potential in the idea of the Super Crown, and even of Bowsette in particular, that doesn't have to be super sexual, and I really hope it doesn't get lost in a wave of people, yunno. Well. Doing what they're doing.

I see that such fan arts are following the whole 'Darker skin tone= evil' :V
I really hope this isn't what's actually going on-- so far I've noticed only the non-blonde pictures of Bowsette go for the darker skin tone. I think they're trying to go for, like, the Gerudo look?
 
I see that such fan arts are following the whole 'Darker skin tone= evil' :V
Also "here's a darker skin version for those of you who find it hotter". Both are pretty insulting.
People can draw whatever they want. What’s worth analyzing is what becomes a viral hit and what that entails, particularly in a context where sexualization of women in particular is a norm.

For me it’s kind of annoying that stuff like this gets to be viral, but if a gay character even gets included in a game, people complain that it’s “forced.” Yet, a redesign of an existing character that does little beyond sexualize her gets to be viral? It just says something about our culture and it’s worth analyzing. I don’t care if people make sexy fanart, that’s not a problem, what’s interesting is seeing what gets celebrated and what gets lauded.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
 
Part of the problem with the video game industry in general is that it is still simultaneously attempting to court both very general and hyper niche audiences at the same time, and while those two can co-exist (they have to, at some level) it's extremely uncomfortable for everyone in the former category having to deal with the inherently creepy aspects of the latter. Additionally, a big part of the problem is also the latter attempting to normalize those inherently creepy things.
Yeah the normalization is the issue and the worst aspect of it is normalization the sexualization of underage girls.


What drive me crazy is how they tend to deny they are pedo
just a recent example I come across in reddit

 
I love the whole Bowser part of the meme, but in the actual Mario lore, I feel like this really diminishes who Toadette and Peach are
Seems to be a part of the meme. To quote incels:
"Princess Bowser is like if you had the mind of a man with the body of a woman. Bowsette won't play coy and dump you after you adventure through 8 world's, she understands the cameraderie and respect that comes from a fight between men and she feels equally desperate for love and affection. Peach, honestly, is just as stuck up, needy, demanding and frigid as a real life woman."

Feels to be a pretty major part of the whole meme, saw a lot of "Peach destroyed" images when I first saw it on twitter. The sad part is, the original IDEA of the character (Peach with hard rock accessories and pointy teeth = dark peach) would have been appealing to me. Even "make avatar appealing", even with cleavage or not, but the associated crap (and thoroughly lazy design trends - dress immediately devolves into a leotard, because that's the default outfit) that came with it really sunk it.

For me it’s kind of annoying that stuff like this gets to be viral, but if a gay character even gets included in a game, people complain that it’s “forced.” Yet, a redesign of an existing character that does little beyond sexualize her gets to be viral? It just says something about our culture and it’s worth analyzing
This pretty much, especially when we put the LGBT angle in.

Because apparently complaining about a trend in videogame fanart is relevant to the discussion, so by proxy, this is too
You still come across as seething over this getting criticism, you know? It's not a good look.
 
Seems to be a part of the meme. To quote incels:
"Princess Bowser is like if you had the mind of a man with the body of a woman. Bowsette won't play coy and dump you after you adventure through 8 world's, she understands the cameraderie and respect that comes from a fight between men and she feels equally desperate for love and affection. Peach, honestly, is just as stuck up, needy, demanding and frigid as a real life woman."

Feels to be a pretty major part of the whole meme, saw a lot of "Peach destroyed" images when I first saw it on twitter. The sad part is, the original IDEA of the character (Peach with hard rock accessories and pointy teeth = dark peach) would have been appealing to me. Even "make avatar appealing", even with cleavage or not, but the associated crap (and thoroughly lazy design trends - dress immediately devolves into a leotard, because that's the default outfit) that came with it really sunk it.



This pretty much, especially when we put the LGBT angle in.



You still come across as seething over this getting criticism, you know? It's not a good look.
I hope this makes you feel better.
 
Goblin Slayer and One Punch Man Mangakas have done Bowserette fanart, the meme has reached its peak, expect the worst to come.
Oh does Bowsette get raped by horrific Koopa Troopas?

Note: If you're bothered by how women are treated in fiction, don't read Goblin Slayer. It's like someone read Berserk and their main takeaway was "yo that monster rape is so edgy yo!", not that this particular aspect of Berserk isn't a turn off. Took one look at Goblin Slayer and decided to stick to Dungeon Meshi for all my manga DnD adventure needs. Hope that stayed as wholesome after I took a break.
 
Seems to be a part of the meme. To quote incels:
"Princess Bowser is like if you had the mind of a man with the body of a woman. Bowsette won't play coy and dump you after you adventure through 8 world's, she understands the cameraderie and respect that comes from a fight between men and she feels equally desperate for love and affection. Peach, honestly, is just as stuck up, needy, demanding and frigid as a real life woman."

Feels to be a pretty major part of the whole meme, saw a lot of "Peach destroyed" images when I first saw it on twitter. The sad part is, the original IDEA of the character (Peach with hard rock accessories and pointy teeth = dark peach) would have been appealing to me. Even "make avatar appealing", even with cleavage or not, but the associated crap (and thoroughly lazy design trends - dress immediately devolves into a leotard, because that's the default outfit) that came with it really sunk it.



This pretty much, especially when we put the LGBT angle in.



You still come across as seething over this getting criticism, you know? It's not a good look.
Oh GOD, is that quote furreal? I just cringed into my seat.
 
She's clearly darker in the concept art, but the processes of hiring model is a lot more elaborate than you may think, they're tied to specific agencies, so there's a pretty good chance that Emily Bador was the closest model they could get to how Nico looked like in the concept art, not to mention that olive skinned people are not white and are overly underrepresented in video games, much less those of Malaysian descent.

And you're accusing the same developer that changed Dante's business partner from white to black character in DMC5 of whitewashing:



Wonder we will see patty in dmc v ?
 
Seems to be a part of the meme. To quote incels:
"Princess Bowser is like if you had the mind of a man with the body of a woman. Bowsette won't play coy and dump you after you adventure through 8 world's, she understands the cameraderie and respect that comes from a fight between men and she feels equally desperate for love and affection. Peach, honestly, is just as stuck up, needy, demanding and frigid as a real life woman."

Feels to be a pretty major part of the whole meme, saw a lot of "Peach destroyed" images when I first saw it on twitter. The sad part is, the original IDEA of the character (Peach with hard rock accessories and pointy teeth = dark peach) would have been appealing to me. Even "make avatar appealing", even with cleavage or not, but the associated crap (and thoroughly lazy design trends - dress immediately devolves into a leotard, because that's the default outfit) that came with it really sunk it.

This pretty much, especially when we put the LGBT angle in.

You still come across as seething over this getting criticism, you know? It's not a good look.
I'm am really enjoying the cute Bowser x Peach or Mario art, but it does seem kinda odd when you remember that Bowser is the one that creates said conflicts by kidnapping Peach.

I actually really liked how Peach was really shown to be independent(and need no man) in the ending and post-game of Odyssey, she was just enjoying herself visiting every Kingdom.

I didn't really think much about the destroyed part, at least I don't see it that much, usually it's Peach with a face of disgust or disappointment, even if sometimes she's the one that gets into Bowser haha.
 
I see that such fan arts are following the whole 'Darker skin tone= evil' :V
The version of bowsette with dark skin is a very small percentage of the art being put out though. Out of curiosity I did a search on one of the image sites where people upload this kind of stuff. Bowsette yielded 868 results. And if you added dark skin as an additional search input, the number drops to 47 results

Also "here's a darker skin version for those of you who find it hotter". Both are pretty insulting.
That's kinda how fanart works though? It's what people find appealing
 
Seems to be a part of the meme. To quote incels:
"Princess Bowser is like if you had the mind of a man with the body of a woman. Bowsette won't play coy and dump you after you adventure through 8 world's, she understands the cameraderie and respect that comes from a fight between men and she feels equally desperate for love and affection. Peach, honestly, is just as stuck up, needy, demanding and frigid as a real life woman."
This is genuinely the first time I've heard of someone interpret it this way. That's pretty gross.
 
My main frustration is, the original art of Bowsette that set off this nuclear powderkeg, she wasn't honestly that... like, she was in a more revealing dress than regular Peach, and I guess that part of it is sexualized, but the titanic yobbos thing didn't start until later and I'm not really sure what prompted it other than people being horny as fuck on main. I actually think there's a lot of fun potential in the idea of the Super Crown, and even of Bowsette in particular, that doesn't have to be super sexual, and I really hope it doesn't get lost in a wave of people, yunno. Well. Doing what they're doing.



I really hope this isn't what's actually going on-- so far I've noticed only the non-blonde pictures of Bowsette go for the darker skin tone. I think they're trying to go for, like, the Gerudo look?
I think it’s just meant to look better with the red hair. The Gerudo comparison has been brought up a few times.

Giant breasts has nothing to do with the meme. People are just horny and like them. You can find that art everywhere for better or worse.
Seems to be a part of the meme. To quote incels:
"Princess Bowser is like if you had the mind of a man with the body of a woman. Bowsette won't play coy and dump you after you adventure through 8 world's, she understands the cameraderie and respect that comes from a fight between men and she feels equally desperate for love and affection. Peach, honestly, is just as stuck up, needy, demanding and frigid as a real life woman."

Feels to be a pretty major part of the whole meme, saw a lot of "Peach destroyed" images when I first saw it on twitter. The sad part is, the original IDEA of the character (Peach with hard rock accessories and pointy teeth = dark peach) would have been appealing to me. Even "make avatar appealing", even with cleavage or not, but the associated crap (and thoroughly lazy design trends - dress immediately devolves into a leotard, because that's the default outfit) that came with it really sunk it.
While I remember the “Peach Destroyed” joke cropping up a few times when the meme started I don’t see it much anymore. In fact I far more frequently see art of Peach and Bowsette hooking up(and not just in a fetishy way there’s a lot of genuine cute art.)

Of course I usually check tumblr so and tend to avoid discussion in less savory places so if there are people twisting it in such a sad way that’s a shame.

But I see a lot more cute stuff then anything like that.
 
Seems to be a part of the meme. To quote incels:
"Princess Bowser is like if you had the mind of a man with the body of a woman. Bowsette won't play coy and dump you after you adventure through 8 world's, she understands the cameraderie and respect that comes from a fight between men and she feels equally desperate for love and affection. Peach, honestly, is just as stuck up, needy, demanding and frigid as a real life woman."
Man it just sucks that the original comic that started this whole thing was just a one-off 4-panel by one dude who is kinda drowning in all this now, and people are taking it to... THAT.

Fucking eww.

How do you even get that kind of read off of Peach of all characters?
 
Seems to be a part of the meme. To quote incels:
"Princess Bowser is like if you had the mind of a man with the body of a woman. Bowsette won't play coy and dump you after you adventure through 8 world's, she understands the cameraderie and respect that comes from a fight between men and she feels equally desperate for love and affection. Peach, honestly, is just as stuck up, needy, demanding and frigid as a real life woman."
These pathetic, fucking assholes lol.
 
My main frustration is, the original art of Bowsette that set off this nuclear powderkeg, she wasn't honestly that... like, she was in a more revealing dress than regular Peach, and I guess that part of it is sexualized, but the titanic yobbos thing didn't start until later and I'm not really sure what prompted it other than people being horny as fuck on main. I actually think there's a lot of fun potential in the idea of the Super Crown, and even of Bowsette in particular, that doesn't have to be super sexual, and I really hope it doesn't get lost in a wave of people, yunno. Well. Doing what they're doing.



I really hope this isn't what's actually going on-- so far I've noticed only the non-blonde pictures of Bowsette go for the darker skin tone. I think they're trying to go for, like, the Gerudo look?
Also "here's a darker skin version for those of you who find it hotter". Both are pretty insulting.

Couldn't have said it better myself.
I don't think it's necessarily the "Dark is evil" trope ala Akuma or Xeanort, but rather people interpreting Bowser's red hair + fire affinity into making her a dark tanned redhead. I've seen some comments that just say they like the idea of a new character that isn't white is more appealing to them (and let's face it, the Maro band isn't the most diverse bunch)

TV Tropes actually has an entry about this

Like most character design decisions in anime, colors are often chosen to reflect personalities more than to be realistic depictions. Although dark skin is not a particularly alien choice, it's more often used to reflect a bouncy, energetic, fiery personality than actual nationality. This probably has roots back to the ideal of Japanese beauty including pale skin, as opposed to the chain of association with tanned people being outdoorsy, and thus lively and adventurous. Add in Western associations with red hair, and you get a boisterous adventure-seeker. Bonus points if they have gold eyes.

Naturally, this includes Hard Drinking Party Girls and Tricksters of both genders. The most common combination with this skin tone is a vibrant and noticeable light color. Red is very popular, associated with all sorts of playful Japanese spirits as well as the kabuki wig, so it's also a common (and deliberately unusual looking) palette choice for demonsand Cat Girls. Red's a popular hair color for other reasons as well, of course.
 
The thing is, tan Bowsette worked pretty well on the original comic edits, because the color much matches up well with Bowser's orange scales. In combination with the red hair it makes for a Bowser looking Bowsette.
But for this reason is also annoys me when people uses yellow scaled tail on dark skinned Bowsette.
 
The thing is, tan Bowsette worked pretty well on the original comic edits, because the color much matches up well with Bowser's orange scales. In combination with the red hair it makes for a Bowser looking Bowsette.
But for this reason is also annoys me when people uses yellow scaled tail on dark skinned Bowsette.
Well that's the thing, the original comic still features him as white and blonde instead, with the darker skin version being an afterthought.

It's whatever tho, I don't expect everyone to see it the same way.
 
This is genuinely the first time I've heard of someone interpret it this way. That's pretty gross.
Yeah, you probably won't see that much in era or tumblr, thankfully. I've been linked that by a friend who originally loved the meme, then stumbled over that. Her words were mostly "okay, maybe it's not all sunshine, you're not a killjoy this time :P".

It's a shame, the thing itself isn't entirely disappealing, I'm ashamed to say, if it was a bit less, urgh, and a bit more, cool ladybowser being awesome and/or relating to Peach some I'd be all for it.

I hope this makes you feel better.
it does! Like that one a lot better, for goth reasons, but I always had a thing for that outfit style! ^^
 
"Princess Bowser is like if you had the mind of a man with the body of a woman. Bowsette won't play coy and dump you after you adventure through 8 world's, she
I just had to stop and literally shake off what I just read and the anticipation of where that was going.

But fuck, 70 to 40K followers!?
 
Also honestly, to bring another perspective to it, but while these kind of fanart can be used in a dehumanising way, fanart, fanwork, and fetishistic fanwork also has been use by the LGBT community for decades now to find representation in pop culture that they love because, well, that's the only way we can get it for a very long time.

I've think the trans community has been largely positive about it, or at least I've seen a number of trans artists being into it. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
 
Also honestly, to bring another perspective to it, but while these kind of fanart can be used in a dehumanising way, fanart, fanwork, and fetishistic fanwork also has been use by the LGBT community for decades now to find representation in pop culture that they love because, well, that's the only way we can get it for a very long time.

I've think the trans community has been largely positive about it, or at least I've seen a number of trans artists being into it. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
I think it depends on who you ask, the LGBT community isn’t a monolith. Some are having fun with it while others are rolling their eyes. From my experience, it’s mostly been the latter but that could just be within my bubble.

And honestly, marginalized groups finding representation through fanart that they normally don’t get to see isn’t really the same as what we’re seeing with Bowsette, imo. Though some artists are having fun with bowsette/peach, a lot of it is more commonly just Evil Peach With Bigger Tits.
 
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I think it depends on who you ask, the LGBT community isn’t a monolith. Some are having fun with it while others are rolling their eyes.

And honestly, finding representation through fanart that you normally don’t get to see isn’t really the same as what we’re seeing with Bowsette, imo. Though some artists are having fun with bowsette/peach, a lot of it is more commonly just Evil Peach With Bigger Tits.
Oh totally, I'm not even really talking about this specifically, like for example it excludes the people who shipped standard bowser with Mario for years for example.\

And this is kinda how it is for fanart in general honestly, it's not like LGBT fanart for other stuff really dominates the usual male hetero sexy stuff unless the original work specifically targets it (though one of the more surprising ones recently was Detroit become human lol, and I don't think the game was targeting us specifically), but it's traditionally been a pretty common outlet for LGBT fans.
 
This is genuinely the first time I've heard of someone interpret it this way. That's pretty gross.
Don’t go near any incel boards (generally a good rule anyway, but especially right now), that sort of thinking is apparently all over them right now on this topic specifically... and leaking out onto whatever other services they use.
 
To quote incels:
"Princess Bowser is like if you had the mind of a man with the body of a woman. Bowsette won't play coy and dump you after you adventure through 8 world's, she understands the cameraderie and respect that comes from a fight between men and she feels equally desperate for love and affection. Peach, honestly, is just as stuck up, needy, demanding and frigid as a real life woman."
 
Does widowmaker’s design from Overwatch bug anyone else with its cheap ass shiny purple material and cleavage slit? Personally, her default should’ve been the Talon skin, then people would still have their sexy sniper(meh) and widow wouldn’t look like a cheap cosplayer swinging about.
 
Does widowmaker’s design from Overwatch bug anyone else with its cheap ass shiny purple material and cleavage slit? Personally, her default should’ve been the Talon skin, then people would still have their sexy sniper(meh) and widow wouldn’t look like a cheap cosplayer swinging about.
That would require Blizzard to not have a fetish with bad women wearing heels.
 
From the recent VC4 thread:
As has been said, this is a strong incident in this game (and a lowlight,) but it's not an isolated incident in the game. It's a recurring theme and issue. With a lot of things, for example the trans character in the game, the localization team did a pretty good job massaging the text - but they didn't remove anything, for better and in this case worse.

Working in this industry, I know a couple of teams from different Japanese studios that made a game and were basically told by marketing and higher ups that they had to go back into their games and edit things to be more demeaning/more sexualized towards underage characters/grosser overall. One example, which I can't specify because it was from within the last 5 years, had some of the sexuality and grossness removed for the West and while people complained about "censorship," the person I knew on the original development team said the team felt relief at being able to ship what they actually wanted to outside of Japan.

Why do Japanese higher ups and marketing feel these things are necessary for a domestic market? I don't have the answer beyond a generic "culture(?)" answer. It's gross, but hope my insight is worth something.
Fucking wow. So much for that precious creativity freedom and original author intent, huh.
 

Morrigan

Armoring
Moderator
From the recent VC4 thread:

Fucking wow. So much for that precious creativity freedom and original author intent, huh.
Yeeeep had the same reaction

I always knew this was bullshit, and that it was obvious money-making pandering but it's nice to see an industry person confirm it.
 
From the recent VC4 thread:

Fucking wow. So much for that precious creativity freedom and original author intent, huh.
I saw that thread title with the dreaded "(Read OP)" parenthetical at the end of the title and I don't even want to click on it

but I will because I hate myself

and of course people even on here will stoop low enough to defend harassment. It's hard to not be interested in a new Valkyria, but also fuck all of that dumb shit. The terrible recursive shittiness of "anime" has to hit a singularity sometime soon.
 
The gacha market tells you all you need to know: this shit does well with people (mostly men) who have a shit load of disposable income. Simply put, it's easy money.

It's the same with artists: sure, you could put out an interesting, unique spin on Bowsetta, but when big tits and "t h i c c" thighs are a guaranteed pull that'll pump up your Patreon support...

The system is fucked. We've just gotta keep chiselling away at it until we break through to the other side.
 
Does widowmaker’s design from Overwatch bug anyone else with its cheap ass shiny purple material and cleavage slit? Personally, her default should’ve been the Talon skin, then people would still have their sexy sniper(meh) and widow wouldn’t look like a cheap cosplayer swinging about.
Yeah, bugged me to the point i didnt want to try the game tbh. Talon skin isn’t much better, i’m glad my copy came with Noir skin, cause that one looks at least belieavable

Funny is that i’m using the chinese new year one now lol, that dress is way more sexy than her default costume, while showing less skin.
 
As to bowsette art, let me add this from the locked thread: (artist is @chubbuppy at twitter, NSFW account)

Yeah, bugged me to the point i didnt want to try the game tbh. Talon skin isn’t much better, i’m glad my copy came with Noir skin, cause that one looks at least belieavable

Funny is that i’m using the chinese new year one now lol, that dress is way more sexy than her default costume, while showing less skin.
showing skin as a cheap way of being sexy is so old and overused it's honestly stale
 
\

  • Women get shit irl every goddamn day of our lives, we don't want it in our video games which are supposed to be fun escapism, not a constant reminder of how shitty being a woman is
That is the one thing I disagree with the OP. Video games like movies are not only for escapist as many have social commentary as the main aim.
 
That is the one thing I disagree with the OP. Video games like movies are not only for escapist as many have social commentary as the main aim.
I think it can be discussed. I love Blade Runner 2049, but I totally get criticism from culture critics and feminists who explain that there are already lots of pieces of media that show how shitty woman have it.

Honestly I can't really remember right now a sci-fi noir movie that have women as equal as men, but that's probably me not being very knowledgeable in the topic. And honestly we need more female representation that's respectful. Uncharted Lost Legacy comes to mind. The enemies didn't have to call the protagonists bitches or anything of the sort to demonstrate they were bad guys.
 
Yeah, bugged me to the point i didnt want to try the game tbh. Talon skin isn’t much better, i’m glad my copy came with Noir skin, cause that one looks at least belieavable

Funny is that i’m using the chinese new year one now lol, that dress is way more sexy than her default costume, while showing less skin.
showing skin as a cheap way of being sexy is so old and overused it's honestly stale
Yes! A good design helps exudes a more 'natural' sexy compared to a...'manufactured' sexy that many designers often default to.
 
Does widowmaker’s design from Overwatch bug anyone else with its cheap ass shiny purple material and cleavage slit? Personally, her default should’ve been the Talon skin, then people would still have their sexy sniper(meh) and widow wouldn’t look like a cheap cosplayer swinging about.
Imo, Widowmaker is an incredibly bland design, especially compared to its peers. She almost feels out of place.
 
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